Out of touch - congrats you've made POE 1.5

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Darkbblue#3653 wrote:

Well, I'm a totally new player to the PoE series. Since I haven't played PoE1, I'm fine with a PoE1.5, though I might still prefer more "intentional" gameplay as I'm also a souls player.
Nevertheless, the key here is that player character and monsters' power should match. Now we're having a souls character and ARPG monsters. Either make them both slow or make them both fast.

Exactly. They abandoned the original idea of slower and more meaningful combat, but left the move speed debuffs on players that they'd built because of that.

We're all roleplaying that we have two sprained ankles and a bum knee, while the mobs have been smoking pcp and practicing parkour.

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Scholar_of_1st_Lag#7529 wrote:

PoE2 needs to focus more on:
* Fewer enemies with better capabilities
* Skill-based offense & defense (something in the rough direction of Soulsborne)
* More methodical combat with a system of counters sort of like paper/rock/scissors, Smash Bros series, & so forth.
* More challenging map designs where various barriers, traps, puzzles, mazes, & obstacles (including locked doors) force the player to fight & explore better. As of now, the map designs are too superficial (various pathways all on 1 altitude level with different appearances) & only slightly effect the combat system.

I would hate that game so much.

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de99ial#0161 wrote:

I would hate that game so much.

Just go play Diablo then.

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AbyssianOne#1625 wrote:

"

de99ial#0161 wrote:

I would hate that game so much.

Just go play Diablo then.

Just go play No Rest For The Wicked then.

We already have a bunch of Diablo games & Diablo-like games. Since the 1990s these games have put me to sleep, because they are too repetitive with strategies, tactics, & exploration.

We have a rapidly growing number of soulsborne games, but most are third party mediocrities. FromSoftware's original soulsborne games are still the best by a ginormous margin.

However, we do NOT have a single game that blends soulsborne with Diablo. No Rest for the Wicked & Path of Exile 2 might achieve that. However, PoE2 is becoming more like the Diablo series or PoE1 over time. No Rest for the Wicked is our best hope right now, but it has major problems such as imitating soulsborne too much instead of creating new & good ideas for soulsborne.

Bloodborne, Sekiro, & Armored Core 6 are very good examples of soulsborne with better creativity. IMO, Remnant 1 & 2 are above average examples of creative soulsborne.

PoE2 needs to figure out what to do with the block & parry. Right now, they are almost completely useless against offensive options. Block & parry should have various options for integration or combination moves with offensive weapons, such as stabbing while hiding behind shield, ram for stun then attack, parry then riposte, etc. Parry should be about high risk & high reward, but blocking should be lower risk & lower reward.

PoE2 needs to create balance between short-range attacks vs medium-range attacks vs long-range attacks. Here are some suggestions:

Magic fists have the fastest attack rates, but the shortest range. They also permit some grappling moves for pushing back, throwing down, & eye gouging enemies. They also have the most agile footwork for dodge-rolls, sidestepping enemies, jumping in any direction, & maybe even jumping over or rolling on top over enemies. Best footwork could mean more options for distance of evasive maneuver, such as shorter dodge-roll for faster recovery & counterattack, but longer dodge-roll for safer escape but longer recovery & farther setup for counterattack.

Maybe magic fists might even apply choke/strangle hold with lasting effect based on magic garrote. Then add in magic for pinning down enemy &/or applying joint locks (slow down enemy attacks & mobility).

Daggers, swords, hammers, flails, & axes have faster attack rates with the second shortest ranges. Daggers create critical damage by being able to stab/slash quickly & accurately into enemy eyes & weak points. Any of these weapons have the option for dual wielding (assuming strength is high enough).

Staffs & spears have faster attack rates with the second longest ranges, but their damage output tends to be less than daggers, swords, hammers, flails, & axes. Staffs & spears should have penalties on attack rates & attack damages when these weapons are used at close ranges.

Bows, crossbows, & magic wands have the second slowest attack rates in regard to preparing a shot, but the shot is the first fastest with the first longest ranges.

Summoning units have the first slowest attack rates in regard to preparing the summon, but the summoned units have the first longest ranges (tie with the shooters).

All these weapons should have magical effects, but these magic effects should reflect the aforementioned attack rates & ranges. For example, the magical effects of a dagger should still be a shorter range than the attack range of the magical effects of a bow & arrow.

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de99ial#0161 wrote:

"

Scholar_of_1st_Lag#7529 wrote:

PoE2 needs to focus more on:
* Fewer enemies with better capabilities
* Skill-based offense & defense (something in the rough direction of Soulsborne)
* More methodical combat with a system of counters sort of like paper/rock/scissors, Smash Bros series, & so forth.
* More challenging map designs where various barriers, traps, puzzles, mazes, & obstacles (including locked doors) force the player to fight & explore better. As of now, the map designs are too superficial (various pathways all on 1 altitude level with different appearances) & only slightly effect the combat system.

I would hate that game so much.

I would love that game, but it won't be PoE2, that much is clear now. You can relax, your side as won, likely because it's a more profitable model and/or they're just too far down the road already to turn around make such sweeping changes as would be needed to fulfil the initially stated vision of meaningful, by whatever definition of the word, combat.

PoE2 on its current path will become PoE1 with better graphics, although honestly not really great or even what I'd call good or well optimized graphics, maybe just not terrible?

They'll retain and migrate over the current PoE1 player base when they shut that down. With the low skill level required, and the brainless inventory management gameplay, they'll probably capture some of the coveted Facebook geriatric gaming crowd, the retirees looking for a game they can play with their grandkids as a way to connect with them. These people have money and will spend it on MTX. The direction this game is heading is rational and explainable from a financial standpoint.

"

You said you wanted slower combat but you've tripled down on braindead gameplay loop.

You missed that most people want 'braindead gameplay loop'.
So they're good.
No one needs slow and boring arpg.

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Skutz123#5377 wrote:

I would love that game, but it won't be PoE2, that much is clear now. You can relax, your side as won, likely because it's a more profitable model and/or they're just too far down the road already to turn around make such sweeping changes as would be needed to fulfil the initially stated vision of meaningful, by whatever definition of the word, combat.

Cuz in souls game you need to kill 100 monsters and a boss.
Boss dead? You have WON.

In poe you need to kill 100 bosses to get rare drop.
Also boss costs fragments.

As a result, you won't fight boss unless you are 100% guaranteed to kill it.
Meanwhile in Dark Souls you're supposed to die a lot. And boss re-attempt cost nothing.

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Hornsent#1110 wrote:

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Skutz123#5377 wrote:

Cuz in souls game you need to kill 100 monsters and a boss.
Boss dead? You have WON.

In poe you need to kill 100 bosses to get rare drop.
Also boss costs fragments.

As a result, you won't fight boss unless you are 100% guaranteed to kill it.
Meanwhile in Dark Souls you're supposed to die a lot. And boss re-attempt cost nothing.

Not sure I understand your point, apologies. I'd assume with that user name you'd know how Elden Ring works anyway.

You accurately describe current state Elden Ring vs PoE2, but there's no law that says an ARPG couldn't have the model where the boss is super difficult and will take an average of 50 or whatever attempts to kill, but is guaranteed to drop the item you need for the next power up. It doesn't have to be farm the boss that dies in 2 seconds dozens or hundreds of times praying you get the drop you want.

You could even have a mix of both in the same game. Anyway, not much use complaining anymore, they seem committed and practically locked into the PoE easy mode RNG gambling model, doubt its even financially viable for them to make the sweeping changes that would be needed to realize what so many people felt was the originally expressed vision.

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Skutz123#5377 wrote:

doubt its even financially viable for them to make the sweeping changes that would be needed to realize what so many people felt was the originally expressed vision.

They would need to spend a lot time/money to make a game for a smaller audience and alienate even more players to make a game almost nobody wants.

Even if they do go with faster pacing, the fact that they are completely committing even more to gambling mats with the game is absolutely atrocious.

We have Jonathan on record saying he wants to get rid of rarity on gear. All the rarity/quantity will end up being on crafting mats on maps, which require you to spend for every run instead of having a permanent rarity boost on your gear you grinded for.

This company has completely lost their way since Chris has left. The game is getting hatred by both sides, slow pacers and fast pacers.

If you want a slow methodical game, find something else to play because that ain't it. If you want a good ARPG with great itemization/drops, find something else to play because that ain't it.

If you want to play a gacha game, play POE2.