Why is there no auction house in POE?

Good question, all I know is that I'm playing ssf until there is one. I have very limited time to play. I'm not gonna waste that timn chasing down people on a third party site hoping that he/she isn't busy or afk. F that.

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Bot420 wrote:

Good question, all I know is that I'm playing ssf until there is one. I have very limited time to play. I'm not gonna waste that timn chasing down people on a third party site hoping that he/she isn't busy or afk. F that.

you'll spend far, far more time trying to get anywhere on SSF than the miniscule time it takes to trade. Also here's the official trade site if you don't want to use third party ones

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Metamorph

Kinda amazes me that despite no any successful action house examples and massively failed one. People still think they know better then GGG.
And no console ah does not count whole console game is too hard to use or play already.

P.s.
Majority of the issues people have with trade are issues with it's performance and not updating fast enough anyway.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Kinda amazes me that despite no any successful action house examples and massively failed one. People still think they know better then GGG.
And no console ah does not count whole console game is too hard to use or play already.

P.s.
Majority of the issues people have with trade are issues with it's performance and not updating fast enough anyway.

Console doesn’t count because it goes against my narrative, more like.

An auction house would fix most of the scamming issues. GGG loves their scammers so that'll be a no go.

I'm not so sure why people need an auction house so badly. I have no issues finding or selling items every league. Yeah, sure, you get those that don;t answer. If you use the official trade, just ignore those people and they no longer show up.

The only real issue is trying to buy low value items. It's not worth it for someone to keep leaving their map for a 1-5c item.

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purely_sinful wrote:

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Deathfairy wrote:

Kinda amazes me that despite no any successful action house examples and massively failed one. People still think they know better then GGG.
And no console ah does not count whole console game is too hard to use or play already.

P.s.
Majority of the issues people have with trade are issues with it's performance and not updating fast enough anyway.

Console doesn’t count because it goes against my narrative, more like.

Whatever you wish to believe, but even with ah it is harder to trade on consoles then without it on PC IMHO. That part is however subject to opinion I admit to that.

I am happy that Path of Exile has no offline-trading and whoever doesn't like it can find a new game.


xoxo

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purely_sinful wrote:

The irony of this entire thread is that an AH does exist in PoE... on console. Instant trading. Offline sales. No invites. No chat spam.

And low and behold: the economy didn’t implode or ruin the game. It is the literally the ONLY thing better about the console version versus PC. If they would give console players better search tools it would essentially be perfect.

ye please show me how you search for some custom rare prefix? i do believe you can't, so your statement about the perfect AH on console is just false and exaggerating

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Sotilis wrote:

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purely_sinful wrote:

The irony of this entire thread is that an AH does exist in PoE... on console. Instant trading. Offline sales. No invites. No chat spam.

And low and behold: the economy didn’t implode or ruin the game. It is the literally the ONLY thing better about the console version versus PC. If they would give console players better search tools it would essentially be perfect.

ye please show me how you search for some custom rare prefix? i do believe you can't, so your statement about the perfect AH on console is just false and exaggerating

It's not perfect by any means. The search feature is limited, but in your example, searching for 1 prefix is doable. It will highlight all the matching descriptions which makes reviewing the items for sale much easier.

Where it falls massively short is multiple mods, like if you wanted boots with 35 movement speed with 80+ life and two resists. This isn't really possible in any reasonable way.

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

And you're ignoring the vast amounts of the less rare items that many people don't bother to attempt to sell because the existing system discourages them. Those would flood the market if trading was "easy". Which in turn would demand a response from GGG.

GGG adjusts the game every league, you act like they would have to do something unusual.

Yes, because they would. Go read Bashiok's statement. I linked it above. Go read the Trade Manifesto (again), Chris Wilson explains it, as bluntly has possible:

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Chris wrote:

Easy trade means reducing drop rates

Drop rates would be reduced so drastically, that the AH would become the primary vector for gear upgrades. No, I'm not making that up, I'm not being hyperbolic. That is actually what happened in the D3 enviroment.

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

That's you, framing the situation just as prejoratively as you can. If Chris Wilson actually said that other devs argued for an AH system, feel free to point us to the link on that.

I can look it up if you really want, however he clearly said he argued with the top devs "for many hours over several days". You think they were arguing because they agree with him?

If you're going to cite it, then yes, go find it. Because you're interpreting the statement as Chris saying "Everyone disagreed with me, but I went ahead anyway." Whereas I suspect a more accurate paraphrase is likely to be "We tried to figure out a way to make it work, but after several days of in-depth study we finally realized we just couldn't".

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

Additionally, you're ignoring the fact that D3 also had a game-gold AH system. You're also ignoring Blizzard's official statment on why they removed both AHs, and ignoring Blizzard's discussion on nerfing drop rates as a result of having an AH.

No, Im saying using D3 as a reason to justify this horrible, unimmersive system is played out, ridiculous, and cherry picking examples. You and Chris appear to have ONE example of a game where it didnt work, vs multiple MMOs and other games where it worked fine.

PoE is not an MMO. None of your MMO examples are relevant. It is a different game style with different game-play loops and different limitations. Auction House systems can indeed serve a useful role in some MMO systems.

D3 is the one, single valid example (that I personally am aware of) because it was actually an ARPG. It's exactly the same type of game system that PoE is (despite all D3's many flaws, which I won't belabor here).

To list only a few of the relevant differences:

MMOs use a shared overworld where players compete for resources.
MMOs require large groups to obtain the best gear.
Almost all MMO gear is Bind-on-Equip. The BEST MMO gear is Bind-on-Pickup.
Many MMOs have a durability system, where equipables are destroyed (sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly).
MMOs typically use static stats on gear, there may be some variation, but not to the degree we see in ARPGs, where gear highly randomized.

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

Your assumption that your ideas are "constructive" is a highly subjective opinion.

Please dont troll.

I'm not. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. You're incredibly quick to frame the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you as negatively as possible, and then you move on to attempting to dismiss said opinions as being invalid as a direct result of your own assumptions.

You also appear to assume that the way YOU play PoE is the only valid way, and that the game system should be adjusted specificlly for you, and the tiny percentage of players who play the way you do.

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trixxar wrote:

There have been thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of suggestions. Your claim is none are constructive?

No, that's you, attempting to use a Strawman arguement. I said that your belief that your own suggestions are constructive is highly subjective. In specific, you made a suggestion (in another thread, some weeks ago) and I responded to you specifically with a request for further data regarding your suggestion, and you failed to provide any.

Again, I didn't expect you to have the answers, but I had hoped that asking you would promopt you to consider how other styles of game play might be impacted by your suggestion, and to get you to realize how little actual data you personally have on how the game works.

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trixxar wrote:

Im trying to respond earnestly but this is what I mean by saying its hard to take you seriously. You really want to say no suggestions on AH have EVER been constructive in the hundreds or thousands of threads? And you claim not to be trolling?

*sighs*

Nope, I didn't say that, and I'm not claiming that. That's still you, attempting to employ a Strawman.

You're making a blanket generalization about "thousands of suggestions". I have nothing to say about such a generalization. It's a generalization. It's not actionable! If you want to change the existing system, then you need to actually list specific suggestions.

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

My recollection is that I asked you for a considerable degree of elaboration on your "proposal," and you failed to offer anything conclusive in return.

I am offered dozens of elaborations and ideas, in suggestions, the trade thread and otherwise. I can summarize a few.
-Use the league format to experiment, if you and Shags and Chris' fears that the sky will fall is right, remove it. Just like your favorite example Diablo did.

And how much will that cost? No, that's NOT an excuse for you to get defensive and attempt to convince me that it would be "easy". Instead I'm asking literally: How much would that cost? How would that cost corralate to the normal budget for development for a new league. How many people would need to be tasked to build, and execute such a system? Where would that budget come from?

Frankly, I suspect you'd have better luck trying to get GGG to impliment such a system in a privately funded league. A "branch" rather than in the main league. But in that case you'd have to shoulder the entire development cost.

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trixxar wrote:

-Use limitations on trade listings to remove your fears of bots and people flooding the market.

Wouldn't work. That's literally what Blizzard/D3 tried, and it still failed. Do I need to mention that Blizzard has 44 employees for every one that GGG has? Point being: Blizzard has a lot more resources to throw at the problem and they still couldn't make it work.

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trixxar wrote:

-Set up implicit costs to use the AH that balance out the ease. If each item costs 100 ex extra, no one would use it. If it cost one scroll of wisdom, everyone would use it. There is a medium inbetween to achieve the EXACT same level of obstruction that Chris wants. He just has to use his brain. 1c too low? Then 20 is too low? Is 50? I have never heard a rational argument against this idea. You are replacing a frustration and annoyance tax with a currency tax. Somewhere earlier someone said "Oh it will just become part of the item cost" Yes, it will, but currency is limited.

Yes, you have, you just don't believe the argument against it. If you set a price, then people will just go "grind" for that price. Gameplay becomes a search for game currency. Upgrades do not come from gameplay, they come from the AH (because no matter what you believe, drop rates would have to be reduced, drastically). Your suggestion here boils down to (functionally) reducing currency drop rates instead of item drop rates. Either way, you're still implicitly agreeing that in order to make an AH function, drop rates somewhere would have to be reduced.

And since you're talking about setting prices you're no longer talking about an Auction House, you're now talking about a store, where merchandise has a set price. An Auction House has a free market, where individual players choose how to price their items.

Since you've already implictly agreed that drop rates would have to be nerfed, we need to look at who those nerfs would impact. Not you obviously, because you don't play in a manner that would be impacted. But crafters would be, so too would SSF players (regardless of how much you'd like to pretend that they're not relevant).

And finally, PoE's unique currency system is one of the most interesting aspects of the game. The system you're proposing would functionally eliminate that (as Shagsbeard has already pointed out).

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trixxar wrote:

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Unquietheart wrote:

No one is claiming that the current system is "good".

But this is not binary. Its not turn on an AH or not, its improve trade or not. I dont believe anyone thinks there are zero good solutions here. To justify making no changes says that this is literally THE best solution possible. If you dont believe that, then you dont have to support the AH, but why fight so hard to justify the existing system?

Again, because the existing system is the lesser of multiple evils.

Are there viable solutions? Perhaps there are. The reason I argue against such suggestions as have been made to date is because I do not believe any of those suggestions are viable. Further, I've yet to hear any suggestion that Chris Wilson has not already addressed and dismissed (at least in general) in his Trade Manifesto. He's quite thorough, and explains his rational in depth.

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trixxar wrote:

You and the others are supporting a broken system simply because you fear ONE of the dozens of solutions, which could be implemented in millions of ways to address the problems.

I oppose changing the existing system, because I have actual experience with an AH system in an ARPG, and (in my opinion) everything that the experts from both GGG and Blizzard tell you about why it failed are 100% accurate.

You're once again making a blanket statement which intentionally attempts to frames my opinion on the subject as "irrational" (and thus easily dismissed in your mind), I'll throw a similar blanket statement back at you: I've yet to see anything from you that doesn't boil down to you wanting trade to be "easier". The perils of "easy" trade are one of the key talking points of the Trade Manifesto.

Here, I'll link it again for easy reference: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870