Why is there no auction house in POE?

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Eldyrus wrote:

I don't know if this mentality applies to everyone. But for me, when I get to end game content and get to the point in which I can not advance further, I lose interest in the game completely. This is because I realize that in order to progress, I will need to either be extremely lucky with RNG to get the gear that I need or I need to play POE trade which I loath. So, instead of doing either one of those option, I simply switch to another game. This seems to be counter to what GGG wants in terms of people playing more.

Am I just weird or do other people feel the same as I do about this?

Yup, you just told my POE story. It's too bad you and I don't have an RMT attitude. If we did, POE would be as low stress as D2 for us. Couldn't handle the thought of RMT here though. Too much MTX to wast money on already.

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trixxar wrote:

The people arguing against AH sound like we all have tens of thousands of exalts sitting around and no item would be out of anyones reach. In reality there is a still a limited currency pool.

And you're ignoring the vast amounts of the less rare items that many people don't bother to attempt to sell because the existing system discourages them. Those would flood the market if trading was "easy". Which in turn would demand a response from GGG. (Because this is an ARPG, and at high levels gear equates directly to progression (as do "consumables"). Progression remains one of the most tightly managed aspects of any ARPG, for a variety of excellent reasons).

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trixxar wrote:

The real reason is that although many lead devs argued for it (according to Chris, not me), Chris was burned by Diablo III AH where you could use real money for purchases, and thus thinks any and all improvements to trade are the devil and game destroying.

That's you, framing the situation just as prejoratively as you can. If Chris Wilson actually said that other devs argued for an AH system, feel free to point us to the link on that.

Additionally, you're ignoring the fact that D3 also had a game-gold AH system. You're also ignoring Blizzard's official statment on why they removed both AHs, and ignoring Blizzard's discussion on nerfing drop rates as a result of having an AH.

Lylirra's official statement can be found here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/9972208129
Bashiok's discussion of how an AH impacts drop rates can be found here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/5150764997?page=3#49

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trixxar wrote:

Any constructive ideas are ignored, no changes and made, and thats why we still get to send 30 messages for a single map.

Your assumption that your ideas are "constructive" is a highly subjective opinion.

My recollection is that I asked you for a considerable degree of elaboration on your "proposal," and you failed to offer anything conclusive in return. I didn't expect you to actually have any of the information I asked you for, but I did hope that my asking would at least prompt you to consider the different strata of gamers playing PoE, and how your "proposal" might impact those who weren't actually you.

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trixxar wrote:

To all the people defending it... I used to try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I think its just trolls / people who cant help but argue anything / people who never use trade to begin with so have no idea.

Well, that goes both ways.

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trixxar wrote:

You can rationally oppose the AH, sure. You cant rationally claim the current system is good.

No one is claiming that the current system is "good".

The current system (as I've said before (to you specifically if I'm not misremembering)) is that it's considered the lesser of two evils.

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Boneshaka wrote:

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Eldyrus wrote:

I don't know if this mentality applies to everyone. But for me, when I get to end game content and get to the point in which I can not advance further, I lose interest in the game completely. This is because I realize that in order to progress, I will need to either be extremely lucky with RNG to get the gear that I need or I need to play POE trade which I loath. So, instead of doing either one of those option, I simply switch to another game. This seems to be counter to what GGG wants in terms of people playing more.

Am I just weird or do other people feel the same as I do about this?

Yup, you just told my POE story. It's too bad you and I don't have an RMT attitude. If we did, POE would be as low stress as D2 for us. Couldn't handle the thought of RMT here though. Too much MTX to wast money on already.

The third option is to play the game as designed, and grind for your gear. It's in the name of the company. If you don't want to grind for your gear, find a company with a different name.

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Unquietheart wrote:

And you're ignoring the vast amounts of the less rare items that many people don't bother to attempt to sell because the existing system discourages them. Those would flood the market if trading was "easy". Which in turn would demand a response from GGG.

GGG adjusts the game every league, you act like they would have to do something unusual. Yes, average power level could rise (depending on how the AH is set up), just as it has with power creep every single league. This argument is basically saying "There would be some power creep." Yes, there would. You think GGG cant handle that?

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Unquietheart wrote:

That's you, framing the situation just as prejoratively as you can. If Chris Wilson actually said that other devs argued for an AH system, feel free to point us to the link on that.

I can look it up if you really want, however he clearly said he argued with the top devs "for many hours over several days". You think they were arguing because they agree with him?

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Unquietheart wrote:

Additionally, you're ignoring the fact that D3 also had a game-gold AH system. You're also ignoring Blizzard's official statment on why they removed both AHs, and ignoring Blizzard's discussion on nerfing drop rates as a result of having an AH.

No, Im saying using D3 as a reason to justify this horrible, unimmersive system is played out, ridiculous, and cherry picking examples. You and Chris appear to have ONE example of a game where it didnt work, vs multiple MMOs and other games where it worked fine.

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Unquietheart wrote:

Your assumption that your ideas are "constructive" is a highly subjective opinion.

Please dont troll. There have been thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of suggestions. Your claim is none are constructive? Im trying to respond earnestly but this is what I mean by saying its hard to take you seriously. You really want to say no suggestions on AH have EVER been constructive in the hundreds or thousands of threads? And you claim not to be trolling?

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Unquietheart wrote:

My recollection is that I asked you for a considerable degree of elaboration on your "proposal," and you failed to offer anything conclusive in return.

I am offered dozens of elaborations and ideas, in suggestions, the trade thread and otherwise. I can summarize a few.
-Use the league format to experiment, if you and Shags and Chris' fears that the sky will fall is right, remove it. Just like your favorite example Diablo did.
-Use limitations on trade listings to remove your fears of bots and people flooding the market.
-Set up implicit costs to use the AH that balance out the ease. If each item costs 100 ex extra, no one would use it. If it cost one scroll of wisdom, everyone would use it. There is a medium inbetween to achieve the EXACT same level of obstruction that Chris wants. He just has to use his brain. 1c too low? Then 20 is too low? Is 50? I have never heard a rational argument against this idea. You are replacing a frustration and annoyance tax with a currency tax. Somewhere earlier someone said "Oh it will just become part of the item cost" Yes, it will, but currency is limited.

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Unquietheart wrote:

No one is claiming that the current system is "good".

But this is not binary. Its not turn on an AH or not, its improve trade or not. I dont believe anyone thinks there are zero good solutions here. To justify making no changes says that this is literally THE best solution possible. If you dont believe that, then you dont have to support the AH, but why fight so hard to justify the existing system?

You and the others are supporting a broken system simply because you fear ONE of the dozens of solutions, which could be implemented in millions of ways to address the problems.

because it is a shit idea that people don't think through because they just want to use it for one thing, ignoring everything else wrong with it.

Ever play WoW on a busy server and try to sell common items like mats? usually within minutes you are undercut and end up either having to stay on and actively pull auctions to adjust pricing to the point it is not even worth it or just come away with nothing, PoE's AH would be far worse than that because there is a MUCH larger pool of people to buy from/sell to, prices would tank on some things sky rocket on others, bots would run rampant on stuff like maps and exalts...and that is just some of the things that will go wrong...all ignored because you want to make a few chaos quickly/ get maps without having to /w a few people.

The maps thing especially is laughable, you are only having problems with it because you are contacting the people with the lowest price and they are getting spammed by tens of people, it won't happen quite like that in an AH but those low listings will be gone quickly taking the price up to above what you want to pay...assuming someone decides they want to control the market on what ever map is most profitable.

.

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Wartodust wrote:

With all due respect to the community websites that makes trading possible in a descent way, it still feel clunky alt tabbing all the time to search for items/creating my own markets. Also i cannot sell anything when i am not online and when people whisper me, i need to halt my current activities.

Is there any specific reason for this?

I think the reason is the same with "why we have new league every 14 weeks". People seem think that permanent league is the main game of PoE, But i think the main league is the temp league which economy always get reset every new league start.

It have to be challenging (hard to "complete" the game, "complete" here have multiple interpretation) and make the game still enjoyable even is not "complete".
And I think read article in the past that Blizzard Dev complain that player consuming content to fast. So i think make huge amount of content yet still enjoyable even players didn't "complete" it is the key.

here is some various definition of "complete"
- complete challenge (40/36/24/16) (pick the target)
- have level (100/98/96/92) character (pick the target)
- have (4/3/2/1) level 90++ character (pick the target)
- able to clear (red/yellow/white) maps (pick the target)
- etc

Just set the defition of "complete" depends on your play time amount and be realistic with what you try to achieve. It is challenge league of course it is supposed to be challenging. If the goal you try to achieve needed more than 14 weeks then play standard.

You dont need to have "perfect equipment" i mean there is already Player in SSF that able to get decent equipment. for the extreme completionist, collectors, perfectsionist with the absence of Auction House making them feel tortured without auction house. And might be people complain dont have time to "grind", just deal with it, it is "grinding gear game".

With the auction house will make faster for majority of player to consume all content. Challenge less challenging or need more challenging challenge. Of course all of my argument is only applied in "Temp League". In My opinion auction house is due to be appeared in "Standard".To be honest Auction house is needed, "In Standard". Of course GGG wont do it because it will make people in temp league jealous of it.

The league is already fun without consuming all content. No Need to be feel "left behind" by "hardcore completionist" or other player. play in your own pace.

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Ankparp wrote:

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Wartodust wrote:

With all due respect to the community websites that makes trading possible in a descent way, it still feel clunky alt tabbing all the time to search for items/creating my own markets. Also i cannot sell anything when i am not online and when people whisper me, i need to halt my current activities.

Is there any specific reason for this?

I think the reason is the same with "why we have new league every 14 weeks". People seem think that permanent league is the main game of PoE, But i think the main league is the temp league which economy always get reset every new league start.

It have to be challenging (hard to "complete" the game, "complete" here have multiple interpretation) and make the game still enjoyable even is not "complete".
And I think read article in the past that Blizzard Dev complain that player consuming content to fast. So i think make huge amount of content yet still enjoyable even players didn't "complete" it is the key.

here is some various definition of "complete"
- complete challenge (40/36/24/16) (pick the target)
- have level (100/98/96/92) character (pick the target)
- have (4/3/2/1) level 90++ character (pick the target)
- able to clear (red/yellow/white) maps (pick the target)
- etc

Just set the defition of "complete" depends on your play time amount and be realistic with what you try to achieve. It is challenge league of course it is supposed to be challenging. If the goal you try to achieve needed more than 14 weeks then play standard.

You dont need to have "perfect equipment" i mean there is already Player in SSF that able to get decent equipment. for the extreme completionist, collectors, perfectsionist with the absence of Auction House making them feel tortured without auction house. And might be people complain dont have time to "grind", just deal with it, it is "grinding gear game".

With the auction house will make faster for majority of player to consume all content. Challenge less challenging or need more challenging challenge. Of course all of my argument is only applied in "Temp League". In My opinion auction house is due to be appeared in "Standard".To be honest Auction house is needed, "In Standard". Of course GGG wont do it because it will make people in temp league jealous of it.

The league is already fun without consuming all content. No Need to be feel "left behind" by "hardcore completionist" or other player. play in your own pace.

There is a severe misunderstanding regarding trading gear. Right now trading for the BIS items of your build is REALLY easy and fast, furthermore the game is balanced around you grinding currency, not items.
What is hard in the game is trading for the crafting materials required to craft your own gear (dropped gear is shit compared to crafted ones so they will always be the "final step" of gearing). This means that the current iteration of trading does literally nothing against people buying good gear, but it hinders anyone that would want to make their own GG gear.
If they want to slow the gear progression the only reasonable way would be making trading for gear impossible. This would make so everyone would have to trade for the crafting materials that are required for your build instead of buying the final product.

Well, this is a question that get's asked a lot. As usual there is a bunch of misinformation. Chris Wilson made the decision to allow trade but to make it "inconvenient". Like it or not that is just the way things are.

Now, the more nuanced answer. What looked like a horrible decision (to many) in 2013 is 100% perfectly OK in 2020 IMO. Why the difference? Players have far more information now and have POENinja, POETrade, etc. to make the trades somewhat easy. Frankly most experienced players don't even throw stuff into trade unless it is 5c+ after the first week so they will not be bothered. But it does allow folks who want to do so to play trader....

Anyway, I have become fine with the trading over the years. Is it inefficient? yes. Does it interrupt your gaming? yes. Can you make a choice in the matter? yes. Put it on yourself rather than blaming GGG. And my last point - it does humanize the game for me - I try to be nice when trading because we are all one big gaming community (in theory) and even if you run across assholes all the time you can feel good that you are not one of them. Your mileage may very.

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MrWonderful99 wrote:

Anyway, I have become fine with the trading over the years. Is it inefficient? yes. Does it interrupt your gaming? yes. Can you make a choice in the matter? yes. Put it on yourself rather than blaming GGG.

This is the level of thinking in supporting the current system ... its a broken, terrible inefficient system, but somehow instead of that being GGGs problem to fix... uh, lets blame the players! yeah, makes sense.

That is rampant fanboi-ism.

(There, tame enough for you Kane?)