GGG what's the point of having any stats in the game if they don't do anything?

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Johny_Snow wrote:
Ok, seriously now, let me tell you what the OP is mad about - dying. It is perfectly possible to do end game content on a cheaper build when you are prepared to die a couple of times each time you try. He, however, doesn't want to die. Because to so many people losing exp means it wasn't worth it.

Meanwhile, the game allows you to try SIX times to do hard content. You died 5 times but you did it? No, I died and it doesn't count, which is BS. If anything, the game is too generous. Why am I allowed to blast through 8-mod tier 16 maps on a 30c budged build? Because I can die all I want and it doesn't matter.


Well, if OP doesn't like dying why does he play a paper build?
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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iParadoxG wrote:
Props to OP for making a solid point that I totally side with.

It's frustrating seeing folks on the forum nitpicking at OP's argument with responses like "Poe has infallible game design" or "Go play another game." Instead of taking the feedback for what it is.


People do take his argument exactly for what it is. OP isn't really complaining about defensive mechanics not mattering, he already admitted they do. It's just a front he is trying to put up.
He is complaining because his build doesn't work as smooth as he wants it to be and blames the game for it. He pretends to admit that his build is still lacking as well as not knowing much about mechanics but in the next sentence he sweeps all of that under the rug and goes back to blabbering about bad design and what not.

Even if his problem was actually about the design of defense systems in the game, this topic was already a lost cause the moment the opening post ended up being what it is, a rant about his supposedly tanky build not being tanky.

If he wanted to provide feedback about defensive mechanics he should have made logical arguments about which defensive systems he thinks need improvement and why and suggest better options. There certainly IS room for improvement on that front, most of the people here going against OP wouldn't deny that. But the way OP keeps presenting himself it's just impossible to take him seriously.

He leaguestarted a build with such a high gear floor that i wouldn't even consider playing it until i have 500+ divines in the bank and complains that it doesn't work properly at low budget, yeah, big surprise. He either has no clue how builds work or he utterly ignored it when he made his build choice. Either way the problems he complains about in this topic are entirely selfinflicted.
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iParadoxG wrote:
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Baharoth15 wrote:
It's not that defensive stats do nothing, you are just completely mistaken on the numbers required.

Physically you have essentially no armor, only 4 endurance charges. That's less than 20% total mitigation there. A rare hitting for 5k phys is on the lower end of things in t16 maps and if that happens twice you are already dead.

Elemental wise you have again your hp pool and 75 res. The game is based around having 75 res. It's designed in a way where you'll still take noticable damage from normal mobs in white t16 maps while having that amount of resistance. You most likely aren't running your maps white though.

Chaos, well again you have your mana pool and every chaos hit dealt to you does extra damage because of your lacking res.

Your EHP is actually "good enough" to not get oneshot by trash mobs but rares and most map bosses in red maps have attacks that can oneshot you at this level of defense, even without map mods. That said, i'd take bets that most of your deaths aren't from actual oneshot i.e 1 attack killing you, but from getting hit by a ton of stuff in quick succession. After all you have really low recovery 160 ES leech and 300 ES regen is as good as nothing.
Even a couple of spiders hitting for like 500 damage each can pick you apart in less than a second if there are enough of them. With "enough" meaning ~10 which again, in this game and with it's mob density is like nothing.

You basically take a leather jacket to a gun fight and complain that it hurts when you get shot. You think you are tanky but frankly, your build is a glass cannon. Your ES pool is nothing to write home about and you have less than what i'd consider even basic mitigation on all fronts.




I'm sure you're tryna help, and I am also sure that the OP knows ab out this too. But do you see how ridiculous it has to be to survive in this game? res/arm/eva/es/life/ward/regen/recovery/recoup/taken as/%less dmg taken/% less dmg taken from area, proj, dot, hits/spell supp/atk block/spell block/end charge/leech/ailment immunity/bleed,poison,corrupt blood immune/guards/aura, etc

lol, I'm pretty sure I must have missed something. ridiculous.

even with that, there's gonna be a +# additional proj modded white mob will shot gun you on a white map.


:D pretty much this.

How did POE get so bloated... When you need 50 layers of defense.
Stupid PoE2 Particle System Patch...

New mute system is another hot garbage.
Last edited by y3lw0rC on Apr 10, 2024, 5:02:23 AM
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FutureFear wrote:
Seriously what's the point of having capped resist, a ton of evasion and energy shield, mana and mind over matter + arcane cloak if you're just getting one shot?

ES: 8586
Life: 2182 -> 218 after reservation
Mana: 9705

[...]


Mind over Matter and Divine Guidance specify that they apply to damage from life (total of 50% of damage taken to life from mana). So basically your 218 life, if you don't run out of mana, become 536 or virtually additional 218 life. Considering all the mana and ES you have I wouldn't consider this a good use.

Obviously evasion, dodge and block aren't helping you against real one-shots. You either don't get hit and life or you get hit and die.
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FutureFear wrote:

WHY doesn't any of the above seem to help prevent one shots or help against obvious things dealing a certain type of damage?


Wait until you find a pack of magic mobs with the modifier "extra damage to injured foes" while using a low life build since, with the amazing coding that GGG has, the game doesn't differentiate you're being low in life by because you took damage or because of other reasons like, for instance, a Coruscating Elixir.

By the way, the white knighting is strong in this thread.
I genuinely don't know what is so hard to understand about this... This thread should have never made it past page two.

OP has basically zero physical damage mitigation, so they are dying to normal packs and rares because those almost exclusively do physical damage.

That's it, case closed, no mystery here.
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SuperMotte wrote:
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FutureFear wrote:
Seriously what's the point of having capped resist, a ton of evasion and energy shield, mana and mind over matter + arcane cloak if you're just getting one shot?

ES: 8586
Life: 2182 -> 218 after reservation
Mana: 9705

[...]


Mind over Matter and Divine Guidance specify that they apply to damage from life (total of 50% of damage taken to life from mana). So basically your 218 life, if you don't run out of mana, become 536 or virtually additional 218 life. Considering all the mana and ES you have I wouldn't consider this a good use.

Obviously evasion, dodge and block aren't helping you against real one-shots. You either don't get hit and life or you get hit and die.


Now this is useful.

Basically what you're saying is that mind over matter is a wasted skill point if you go low life and have a massive pool of Energy shield. (also what the wiki says)

If that's the case it also means, the guide I'm following is wrong in taking it; and so are most mana stacking builds doing the same setup...

If I really would go technical...
would this mean that damage mitigated by either or both of those mechanics is taken directly from your life when out of mana; thus bypassing my Energy entirely?

IF that's the case, I guess that's a big source of getting one shot... since I technically would only have 218 life.. and sometimes even just 1. So basically die instantly in that case...

I also figured evasion isn't the best compared to other types or in combination with other types of defenses... however this builds can "easily" scale to 40-50K evasion compared to other stats like armour. Scaling armour wouldn't be as easy to scale to those numbers, at least not without swapping some (unique) gear that would brick the build.
On that note I also know evasion doesn't help against spell dmg, since those aren't attacks. Thus is best combined with spell suppress (or spell block). To my understanding this build solves that by getting a massive pool of ES and ES leech/regen.

Anyway thanks for pointing out the mind of matter thing.

-> It doesn't mean I agree on how it currently works, it can be improved such as working for ES too.
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I genuinely don't know what is so hard to understand about this... This thread should have never made it past page two.

OP has basically zero physical damage mitigation, so they are dying to normal packs and rares because those almost exclusively do physical damage.

That's it, case closed, no mystery here.


Funny you say that though, since I'm not dying to those things.

When do I die on the build:
1. When I run out of mana -> apparently that's because of mind over matter)

2. When I get overwhelmed by a huge amount of monsters all dealing damage in mere milliseconds... so it seems like a one-shot.

3. When I do pinnacle content such as (regular) cortex boss, shaper, elder, sirus,... I occasionally get one-shot by their attacks if my skills as a player are lacking and was unable to move in time.

4. When the games throws broken stuff in my face.
Mind over matter only applies to damage taken from life, ES comes before life so as long as you have energy shield MoM is doing absolutely nothing for your build, neither positive nor negative. It only comes into effect once your energy shield is down to zero and you take damage to that 2xx life pool of yours at which point MoM is unlikely to save you. Chaos damage hit's your mana pool directly so MoM isn't going to do anything here either.

It has nothing to do with you dying, it's just a wasted passive point, no more no less.
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TIGRElaranja wrote:
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FutureFear wrote:

WHY doesn't any of the above seem to help prevent one shots or help against obvious things dealing a certain type of damage?


Wait until you find a pack of magic mobs with the modifier "extra damage to injured foes" while using a low life build since, with the amazing coding that GGG has, the game doesn't differentiate you're being low in life by because you took damage or because of other reasons like, for instance, a Coruscating Elixir.

By the way, the white knighting is strong in this thread.


To my understanding, their damage wouldn't directly bypass my Energy shield though, or at least it "shouldn't."

That said, it's another great example of how Archnemesis broke the game in terms of modifiers we see on enemies.
They nerfed soul eater... well for the players with HH... and a little bit for monsters too... they still get insane attack/cast speed and less damage taken... up 90% at max stacks...

Try to kill a rare with these mods:
Soul eater
Life regen
Hasted
Ambush

They basically keep follwing you with immense speed and attack faster than the speed of light...while also out regening your damage... because they take 90% less damage from you (at max soul eater stacks)

Yet, Path of Exile isn't broken... right? XD

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