GGG what's the point of having any stats in the game if they don't do anything?

"

FutureFear wrote:

People claimed it was my builds fault. I didn't.

Re-read the title of this thread that YOU created. People claimed it was your build's fault, because YOU decided to place the blame on "stats that don't do anything", when even you know and ADMIT that they do lol.

So yes, you didn't claim it was your build's fault because you want to blame someone else for your build's faults. Unfortunately, you were called out.

"

FutureFear wrote:

Everyone is free in giving their opinion, that doesn't mean I have to agree though. Some people here are quite right, especially about the state of my build others aren't. Perhaps I'm even wrong sometimes, it happens.

To answer your currency and scarab question. I haven't bought a single map, or scarab to fill my map device slots. All scarabs are drops, I just don't run all my maps with scarabs. I'm also specked into scarab drops on my atlas passive tree dropping several each map. I was lucky just once, dropping the "Divination Scarab of Curation" which, a few days was 11 divines... now 24... sadly I sold mine for only 11.. but hey no one can see the future, right?
You're also quite wrong that the cheap ones don't add, value, getting another 3 harbingers on my map or 5 strongboxes is a ton of value for a relative cheap scarab.
We also have to take into account that some of my upgrades are 10 - 20 or 30 and more divines per piece...
Add to that, that the current trade system sucks for selling 100's of scarabs at 3 chaos a piece.. to get some currency...
So yeah I rather use them, than sell them in the hopes I drop better and more valuable loot. So far, not much luck.

To jog your memory, 6 years ago it was Bestiary early 2018... however I didn't start playing again until Delve league later that year. :)
Elder, shaper and uber elder were the main end game... moving them around on the atlas with their influence... quite relevant still, they are still around; just not as easy as they used to be given all the player changes over time.

If you would compare a T16 map 6 years ago, and today, they are vastly different in terms of power required to complete them. The Archnemesis leftovers are still here on rare monsters. Can anyone beat a possessed T16 essence with 8 essences and 4 mods on a rare corrupted T16 map with possibly 8 mods??

Some choices GGG made, weren't good at all over all that time. We had insane boosts in power... Harvest, awakened gems, etc. then took that away and made everything harder with Archnemesis. They tried to fix it, but ultimately made the game worse (my opinion). Now however it seems that adding extra (impossible) mods is their mojo for making the game difficult. However given how the game works... these things stack to impossible numbers, even reaching their hard coded engine limit in monsters health... Tell me how that is good for the games future?

You are right endgame is optional, just like playing Path of Exile itself is optional. It for sure isn't fundamental to be able to live lolz.
However I did reach that content before in previous leagues, and even worse, they now placed content I had access too in the first behind content I can't beat in the first week... (5th map slot) so yes, I complain about it.

No one said you have to agree, it's just that your responses to some valid suggestions/arguments have been quite (passive) aggressive. Which indicates to me that you're not looking for anyone's opinion unless it's in sync with yours. Which I totally get, it's perfectly normal to want people to validate something you are convinced is correct. Still, what people are really saying here is that you might lack some important aspects of game knowledge, which might be the reason you believe you are correct in the first place.

If you are saying that the defense layers are complicated, that is correct and I agree. Same for offense really - but that's nothing new and POE has been like this since day one. Stat calculation in this game has always been a clusterf*. Was the game less complicated years ago? Ofc it was. Was it easier? No, unless you want to equate simple = easy, which isn't something I'd agree with.

If you are saying the game's UI is utter bullshit and gives you no indication whatsoever of how you'd perform at a certain level of anything - also absolutely 100% true.

But you are arguing that
A. defenses are irrelevant
B. the game is harder than x years ago

Both statements are false imo. The only difference is simplicity and progression. There is simply more in the game now than there was years ago and this increases complexity, and it also (theoretically) increases playtime/progression time.

To exemplify, let's say you need to get from France to Germany. You'd need a car with x tanks of fuel and it would take y hours. If, on the other hand, you wanted to get from France to UK, you'd need more fuel and it would take you longer. That is, in theory, the idea behind the game design and there is nothing bad about it. However, GGG also gives us the plane, which is much faster - but not everyone can afford it. There's also the train, which takes longer, but you save fuel and it's cheaper.

I hope you understand where I am trying to get with this. The fact that we have SO many things in the game, so much content, so many options to farm with different levels of efficiency relative to enjoyment - this is exactly what good game design is. They've tried to fill the gaps so that there will be options for every kind of player, from the hardcore 16hrs/day players to "casual" dads who clock in for 5 maps a day. You seem to forget that a league lasts 3 months, and you essentially expect to finish all content by W2, without an optimized build, without optimized currency farming strats and without dumb luck. This is fundamentally wrong.

The time it takes you to reach and complete a desired content will depend on your efficiency, which is something you clearly stated you are not willing to invest in, therefore it's only natural that it will take you much longer than for a player who is efficient.

As a sidenote, the Shaper is trivial content today, and it was pinnacle content 6 years ago. So was uber lab, and now you do it while watching netflix on your other screen or w/e.

If your only complaint is, essentially, that you had easy access to the 5th map slot last league and you don't this league, ok, I could take that as a valid complaint (even though I personally still think the 5th slot is close to utterly irrelevant to mid-level players). [Also, I specified that cheap scarabs would be close to irrelevant AS A 5TH MAP SLOT, not in general]

But that isn't the title of your topic and it's not how you worded it. If it's really about stats, then I'm afraid to say, there's plenty proof here that your opinion on this matter is flawed. Take it or leave it.

PS: I also agree than AN sucks, I hated it from the moment they added it in the core game and I still firmly believe it was a bad decision and made the game a little worse. We did get enough power to compensate, so I am not complaining about difficulty. It's just frustrating, utterly unenjoyable content in mid game, that becomes irrelevant in endgame, so they might as well just remove it.

I feel kinda bad for the OP. This is a very difficult game to make a good character in, and even after years of playing, I don't pretend to understand the mechanics in many cases.

You very much hit a wall at a certain point, and absent help, most folks won't get over it.

"

Felix44 wrote:

No one said you have to agree, it's just that your responses to some valid suggestions/arguments have been quite (passive) aggressive. Which indicates to me that you're not looking for anyone's opinion unless it's in sync with yours. Which I totally get, it's perfectly normal to want people to validate something you are convinced is correct. Still, what people are really saying here is that you might lack some important aspects of game knowledge, which might be the reason you believe you are correct in the first place.

If you are saying that the defense layers are complicated, that is correct and I agree. Same for offense really - but that's nothing new and POE has been like this since day one. Stat calculation in this game has always been a clusterf*. Was the game less complicated years ago? Ofc it was. Was it easier? No, unless you want to equate simple = easy, which isn't something I'd agree with.

If you are saying the game's UI is utter bullshit and gives you no indication whatsoever of how you'd perform at a certain level of anything - also absolutely 100% true.

Perhaps my sarcasm in some of my replies might feel like passive aggressiveness. At the same time though, some of those comments aren't really good advice... by just saying "it's sh*t." that doesn't add anything of value... my responses will reflect their comments though.
Some are relative good advice, if they wouldn't brick the build... which I pointed out on some of comments that it would/could. Especially swapping unique items or reserving mana on a mana stacking build O.o that uses it's mana pool to get DPS.

Anyway I'm just following a guide, and tweaked it a little bit to my playstyle; like swapping frostblink for flame dash... or automating arcana cloak. While also implementing new things the creator mentioned on his stream and videos. :)
So sure I could be missing a puzzle of the piece... and as mentioned somewhere here I could just ask the creator how to solve "his" build's defenses...

However all that doesn't mean Path of Exile current system is perfect like some people here might imply, given their response.
I'm quite sure I pointed out several things that actually don't make sense at all in my opinion. Which also is the entire purpose of giving feedback... sharing ones opinion about something based on certain experiences.

"

Felix44 wrote:

But you are arguing that
A. defenses are irrelevant
B. the game is harder than x years ago

Both statements are false imo. The only difference is simplicity and progression. There is simply more in the game now than there was years ago and this increases complexity, and it also (theoretically) increases playtime/progression time.

To exemplify, let's say you need to get from France to Germany. You'd need a car with x tanks of fuel and it would take y hours. If, on the other hand, you wanted to get from France to UK, you'd need more fuel and it would take you longer. That is, in theory, the idea behind the game design and there is nothing bad about it. However, GGG also gives us the plane, which is much faster - but not everyone can afford it. There's also the train, which takes longer, but you save fuel and it's cheaper.

I hope you understand where I am trying to get with this. The fact that we have SO many things in the game, so much content, so many options to farm with different levels of efficiency relative to enjoyment - this is exactly what good game design is. They've tried to fill the gaps so that there will be options for every kind of player, from the hardcore 16hrs/day players to "casual" dads who clock in for 5 maps a day. You seem to forget that a league lasts 3 months, and you essentially expect to finish all content by W2, without an optimized build, without optimized currency farming strats and without dumb luck. This is fundamentally wrong.

The time it takes you to reach and complete a desired content will depend on your efficiency, which is something you clearly stated you are not willing to invest in, therefore it's only natural that it will take you much longer than for a player who is efficient.

As a sidenote, the Shaper is trivial content today, and it was pinnacle content 6 years ago. So was uber lab, and now you do it while watching netflix on your other screen or w/e.

If your only complaint is, essentially, that you had easy access to the 5th map slot last league and you don't this league, ok, I could take that as a valid complaint (even though I personally still think the 5th slot is close to utterly irrelevant to mid-level players). [Also, I specified that cheap scarabs would be close to irrelevant AS A 5TH MAP SLOT, not in general]

But that isn't the title of your topic and it's not how you worded it. If it's really about stats, then I'm afraid to say, there's plenty proof here that your opinion on this matter is flawed. Take it or leave it.

PS: I also agree than AN sucks, I hated it from the moment they added it in the core game and I still firmly believe it was a bad decision and made the game a little worse. We did get enough power to compensate, so I am not complaining about difficulty. It's just frustrating, utterly unenjoyable content in mid game, that becomes irrelevant in endgame, so they might as well just remove it.

Mhh, I have to strongly disagree on you saying my arguments are false though.

GGG itself released several leagues over the years making the game's content harder.. even stating in their live streams they did, as well as their patch notes... look at the rework of act 1 for example among others. Or as you state yourself, archnemesis...

Also when looking at the wiki information about a lot defensive stuff, we quickly learn that quite a lot of it doesn't do what you would expect. The best example is armor not working for (physical damage over time) aka bleeding.

I do agree the game is vastly diverse in what's possible in both builds, and content to do.
However it does not change how the basic defensive systems work in the game.
All builds require several layers of defense one way or another to mitigate their incoming damage. Also some defenses are better than others to stack... even though they appear to be equal... same values, same place on gear,... yet one outshines the other immensely. Looking at, ward, evasion, armour and ES for example.
True they do quite different things, and made for different types of builds... But like you say... some are car, others a plane, well ward is probably a bicycle.. lolz.

I'm well aware reaching certain content is not doable in a week's time given how much I'm able to play. However that was never my main concern of the post though. I'm also aware I could be much more efficient... but my main goal of playing path of exile is not efficiency... it's having fun. I could farm mirrors trading all day too.. and just play trade of exile... but I just simply don't like it... above all the current trade system is clunky... and not fun to me.
Probably others ways to be more efficient, still the main goal is fun.

The shaper still is quite relevant though given you have to complete it for atlas completion several times (to drop fragments) for (regular) uber elder-shaper and your 4th (or 3th) voidstone or did you forget?
Sure we can buy the fragments too... but someone had to do that content for it though.

Did you release that the fifth also locks players out of the 5 way legion content? Which is far easier content than a T17 map... and I happen to enjoy to farm timeless jewels...
So it's purpose is much bigger than a simple extra scarab.
Not to mention that 5 way legions are (were) great for exp too.

That said though, it clearly isn't my only complaint... and probably could write an essay about what I think should be fixed in Path Exile... it's quite a list. Although I admit they did tick a few things with 3.24 UX changes... except left click... that's still a fail. -> also partially losing a layer of defense I might add in the process.

I guess that's entirely your opinion if you see my arguments about defenses and stats as flawed though. My experience with the games tells me otherwise... and like it or not, I did point out a few of those flaws. Which to everyone's convenience people always seem to forget and mention them in their replies. Or just say "that's how works" ... yeah I noticed.. doesn't mean it's good though.

As for AN - well I would be glad if they removed it... at least essences on high tier maps would become somewhat killable again...
I wouldn't say AN becomes irrelevant in end game though... given we just got T17 maps... where those mods are still there on rare & magic ON TOP of the map modifiers... things can scale to impossible when combined... to me that is well... bad game design.

Stats matter but current defenses are designed to fail.

Exposure + Pen in the same instance. Reduced Armor/Evasion + Ignore %Armor + Accuracy.

I remember watching GGG remove almost all the free DR from Ascendancies. Players complained about the damage nerfs but I was looking at that. Then they reduced block by 1/3, gimped Immortal Call, started stealing charges, basically removed Second Wind and Dodge/Spell Dodge.

I had an Ultimatum character with 1.4 mil physical and 800k elemental eHP, 78/75 block not using Glancing Blows, 78/79 Res, 23/23% Dodge, 2k regen with 5% hp on block, 85% up-time on Immortal Call. Fortify and about 8k HP. One of the most tanky characters I've made.

What made it tanky wasn't just the stats though. It was tanky because modifiers couldn't take those stats away. Most of my Phys DR wasn't Armor and half my ele reduction wasn't resists.

I had 80% Less damage taken when Immortal Call was up and to this day nothing can take away that stat. It's why when I run a Deadeye I often grab two jewels for Wind Ward and slot Arctic Armor. Best value defense layer in the game.

"

Xzorn wrote:

Stats matter but current defenses are designed to fail.

Exposure + Pen in the same instance. Reduced Armor/Evasion + Ignore %Armor + Accuracy.

I remember watching GGG remove almost all the free DR from Ascendancies. Players complained about the damage nerfs but I was looking at that. Then they reduced block by 1/3, gimped Immortal Call, started stealing charges, basically removed Second Wind and Dodge/Spell Dodge.

I had an Ultimatum character with 1.4 mil physical and 800k elemental eHP, 78/75 block not using Glancing Blows, 78/79 Res, 23/23% Dodge, 2k regen with 5% hp on block, 85% up-time on Immortal Call. Fortify and about 8k HP. One of the most tanky characters I've made.

What made it tanky wasn't just the stats though. It was tanky because modifiers couldn't take those stats away. Most of my Phys DR wasn't Armor and half my ele reduction wasn't resists.

I had 80% Less damage taken when Immortal Call was up and to this day nothing can take away that stat. It's why when I run a Deadeye I often grab two jewels for Wind Ward and slot Arctic Armor. Best value defense layer in the game.

Well not quite the same, but I had in some past league (can't exactly remember which one) an aura stacking carrion golem build that pretty much destroyed all content in the game and was basically immortal. -> that was fun.

90% all res, capped block, capped phys. immune to chaos (low life) and well wearing Aegis Aurora for ES on block... while cycloning and cursing every mob on the screen with CWC, cyclone and arc + (double) curse on hit.

That build though isn't even possible anymore to remake... since reservation changes.

"

FutureFear wrote:

Well not quite the same, but I had in some past league (can't exactly remember which one) an aura stacking carrion golem build that pretty much destroyed all content in the game and was basically immortal. -> that was fun.

90% all res, capped block, capped phys. immune to chaos (low life) and well wearing Aegis Aurora for ES on block... while cycloning and cursing every mob on the screen with CWC, cyclone and arc + (double) curse on hit.

That build though isn't even possible anymore to remake... since reservation changes.

And see here is your REAL complaint: you can't be immortal and break the game anymore. It's not at all "stats don't do anything", "defenses don't matter", "the game is way harder", blah blah blah. These are all colorful ways to illustrate your true point.

You aren't immortal 1 week into a league....so it MUST be a flaw in the game design!!!

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

FutureFear wrote:

Well not quite the same, but I had in some past league (can't exactly remember which one) an aura stacking carrion golem build that pretty much destroyed all content in the game and was basically immortal. -> that was fun.

90% all res, capped block, capped phys. immune to chaos (low life) and well wearing Aegis Aurora for ES on block... while cycloning and cursing every mob on the screen with CWC, cyclone and arc + (double) curse on hit.

That build though isn't even possible anymore to remake... since reservation changes.

And see here is your REAL complaint: you can't be immortal and break the game anymore. It's not at all "stats don't do anything", "defenses don't matter", "the game is way harder", blah blah blah. These are all colorful ways to illustrate your true point.

You aren't immortal 1 week into a league....so it MUST be a flaw in the game design!!!

Lolz

Honestly if I wanted a build to be immortal or a build that breaks the game then I probably would have picked another build though; and most likely still require several mirrors of investment to achieve these days.
My current build looked fun to league start, and still is, nothing more, nothing less. It will get there when it gets there.

Even back then when those kind of builds were possible they required quite a lot of investment... and I certainly didn't build that character in the first week of that league. That's purely your assumption based on nothing more than your own thoughts, without evidence or information of the actual character I created except what I provided. And I didn't say it was build in a week lolz.

It's just sad to see people leave such meaningless comments, that neither help or hold any solid argument why they think the game's defenses are good; while I clearly stated they aren't and pointed out several points why it isn't.

And yes I think back then game was more enjoyable and less broken than today. Before several changes they did, your character didn't run out flask charges when killing Hillock in act 1... or didn't have mana issues casting a 2 or 3 link skill in act 2...

The game is far from perfect like a lot of people commenting here seem to believe lolz. However, looking at other threads and reddit, the majority seems to think differently.
So yes I stand by my opinion that several game systems are flawed and certainly could use a rework to make them better and more enjoyable for the majority of the player base.

Props to OP for making a solid point that I totally side with.

It's frustrating seeing folks on the forum nitpicking at OP's argument with responses like "Poe has infallible game design" or "Go play another game." Instead of taking the feedback for what it is.

Let's face it: the bar for characters to clear endgame content in this game has shot through the roof. The amount of time and effort it takes just isn't worth it for some players. And the numbers? They hardly seem to matter. What's the point of capping resistance when that alone never seems to be enough?

And can we talk about the difference between exposure, elemental penetration, and curses? To me, they all seem like variations on the same theme – just different ways to lower enemy resistance. Yet, we're forced to juggle these mechanics like we're in a word game tournament just to have a shot at endgame content.

And don't even get me started on defence mechanics. Suppression, resistance, block, evasion – the list goes on. You try to fine-tune your character with all these options, but you hit a ceiling pretty quickly. No wonder some folks resort to glass cannon builds or funky abuse-exploiting setups just to take on uber-doober bosses.

OP, I'm with you all the way, but let's be real – I doubt GGG will ever ease up on their love for complexity. The game practically thrives on grinding, and playing Standard feels pointless with how every league brings changes that could wreck your build.

I'm cautiously hyped for PoE2, but I'm not sold on this jab-jab-uppercut playstyle. We're supposed to be slaying gods in a dark fantasy world, not playing some weird combo-building cage fighter game. Who knows what to expect anymore, but I'm still holding out hope. Let's see where it takes us.

Ok, seriously now, let me tell you what the OP is mad about - dying. It is perfectly possible to do end game content on a cheaper build when you are prepared to die a couple of times each time you try. He, however, doesn't want to die. Because to so many people losing exp means it wasn't worth it.

Meanwhile, the game allows you to try SIX times to do hard content. You died 5 times but you did it? No, I died and it doesn't count, which is BS. If anything, the game is too generous. Why am I allowed to blast through 8-mod tier 16 maps on a 30c budged build? Because I can die all I want and it doesn't matter.