Buff difficulty of regular content

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BadAssTom wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

And let's face it - if you will be playing over and over builds which are pretty easy to set up plus you know they can beat easily very endgame content you will never feel the challenge. That doesn't mean that majority of player base has to struggle just because you personally are bored. If you want to make it more challenging pick new build (maybe even not considered strongest) and make it work. Just about anything can work in Poe, but takes very different level of effort and skill. You might find that you enjoy game more.

I was, I was playing my own melee build till TotA and I got bored out of making own builds, not interested in it anymore.

Not even saying your own build. Just something different from what you are playing usually which seems to be minion builds. Something you have never played before and has different gameplay. Maybe has expensive endgame gear so it takes more effort. Simply what you don't know. Not sure what it is in your case but there must be bunch.

He's not asking for advice what builds he should play to enjoy the game, he's asking for the game overall to be more difficult. Anyone who has played this game for longer than a few years and doesn't just play one archetype will at some point have played all the base builds, so your advice really wouldn't even help

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BadAssTom wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

And let's face it - if you will be playing over and over builds which are pretty easy to set up plus you know they can beat easily very endgame content you will never feel the challenge. That doesn't mean that majority of player base has to struggle just because you personally are bored. If you want to make it more challenging pick new build (maybe even not considered strongest) and make it work. Just about anything can work in Poe, but takes very different level of effort and skill. You might find that you enjoy game more.

I was, I was playing my own melee build till TotA and I got bored out of making own builds, not interested in it anymore.

Not even saying your own build. Just something different from what you are playing usually which seems to be minion builds. Something you have never played before and has different gameplay. Maybe has expensive endgame gear so it takes more effort. Simply what you don't know. Not sure what it is in your case but there must be bunch.

I have played most builds, be it caster, ranged, melee, summoner, rf afk, mappers, bossers, delve or heist, even aura bots. Minions seems to be sub 30% of my characters, some of older ones I had to remove due to low slot count. Mostly trapper/miners got booted.

Fun fact tho - I never made a build for mageblood.

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Nomancs wrote:

Thanks, but I'm not interested in doing shenanigans like blindfold or playing with my feet to make game artificially challenging. I'd rather ask GGG to compensate from power creep - so I do. And I hope they will, to not bring down PoE to diablo level. Have you tried d4 tho? Might be your jam.

You are not the only metric the developers need to balance the game around.

Giving the change to determination and the introduction of new item bases it does look like that early game might be a little bit harder at least for defensive layer.

But hey the current league and additional area mods showed that GGG is in fact interested to make the game harder, so it's not just the players who are aware of a well needed change but also GGG who's interested to compensate current player power at some places :)

Hope they are keeping up with it in either well deserved big adjustments in power creep or adjustments in area difficulty just like we had this league with the league mechanic itself and t17 maps.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Thanks, but I'm not interested in doing shenanigans like blindfold or playing with my feet to make game artificially challenging. I'd rather ask GGG to compensate from power creep - so I do. And I hope they will, to not bring down PoE to diablo level. Have you tried d4 tho? Might be your jam.

You are not the only metric the developers need to balance the game around.

The feedback forum is a tool for the devs to get a feel for what players of all skill backgrounds want/need/despise, and thus it is meant for everyone. The way you try to shut someone down for being good at a video game can be likened to people telling noobs to "git gud" and contributes to a negative climate which none of us want, so please.

There are two possible scenarios here:

a) GGG likes the current progression where players rush to T16s and beyond. If that is the case, we need more diverse, challenging content waiting at the end. T17s are a step in the right direction surely, despite all the flaws that need to be addressed still. There could be more

b) GGG would like for players to take longer to get to crushing T16s. If that is the case, the base game (including the campaign) needs to become more difficult. GGG has taken this path before by making Act 1 and Act 2 considerably harder, so don't dismiss that just yet

c) GGG nerfs player power instead of buffing content

In the end it's likely going to be a little of category a) and a little of category b) while category c) only really works for onverperforming skills such as PB of Dissipation during Affliction. You wouldn't want to nerf e.g. Chain Hook.

There is a lot to say about this topic and all voices should be heard. This isn't an echo chamber, mate.

one thing that jonathan mentioned in a poe2 interview was how he felt that the boss was too easy.

he then had to realize that him and his team were getting good at the game so they know how to fight the boss efficiently.

this is something i've echoed many times here.

the better you are at the game the further away you are from the "average" player.

no disrespect to all you blokes asking for the game to be harder, you guys probably are really good at the game or good at following a meta build.

i ll just say that poe1's regular is tough enough that i wouldnt recommend poe to any new gamer.

even myself i've grown to dislike how difficult the game is early on.

the gap between weak players and players like yourself can be staggering and will only further exacerbate the divide when such suggestions are made.

but in any case, it is of little consequence. most people who like poe are already playing or have already played poe.

most people that no longer play dont. ggg doesnt really need to depend on poe1 being filled with players for too long.

its time to make poe1 the most hardcore of arpgs.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

The feedback forum is a tool for the devs to get a feel for what players of all skill backgrounds want/need/despise, and thus it is meant for everyone. The way you try to shut someone down for being good at a video game can be likened to people telling noobs to "git gud" and contributes to a negative climate which none of us want, so please.

There are two possible scenarios here:

a) GGG likes the current progression where players rush to T16s and beyond. If that is the case, we need more diverse, challenging content waiting at the end. T17s are a step in the right direction surely, despite all the flaws that need to be addressed still. There could be more

b) GGG would like for players to take longer to get to crushing T16s. If that is the case, the base game (including the campaign) needs to become more difficult. GGG has taken this path before by making Act 1 and Act 2 considerably harder, so don't dismiss that just yet

c) GGG nerfs player power instead of buffing content

In the end it's likely going to be a little of category a) and a little of category b) while category c) only really works for onverperforming skills such as PB of Dissipation during Affliction. You wouldn't want to nerf e.g. Chain Hook.

There is a lot to say about this topic and all voices should be heard. This isn't an echo chamber, mate.

Never said it was supposed to be one. We're all airing our opinions here. And that is mine and why I support it.

I think extremely difficult content should exist, (and even be added to constantly), but it should mostly be "opt-in." I feel the current system does a good job of presenting that.

I also don't think that the primary difficulty scaling should be based around the top 5% of the playerbase - anymore than it should be balanced around the bottom 5%.

Additionally, I don't think there is a large or even appreciable market for "the hardest of hardcore AARPG's." You're going to have a very difficult time marrying the AARPG and it's mass-slaughter-simulation game-play to a Dark-Souls style of careful, technical play. Particularly with PoE 1, where progress past a certain point is measured in "genocides-per-second."

You're not simply planning a difficulty revamp, you're looking at an economy overhaul and loot rebalance to accommodate any degree of player advancement past red-map-capable. More acutely if you're balancing around the sort of resources available to the OP.

There are already alternate systems available to those who feel Standard and the beta leagues are too easy after all. Hardcore forces tanky builds alongside slow and methodical play. Solo-self-found forced artificial gear scarcity to ramp up difficulty. And for those truly interested in punishing themselves, there is Ruthless. (This is ignoring things like T-17 and Puzzle boxes, Uber versions of the pinnacle content and Deep delves).

For those interested, there are options for greatly increasing the game's difficulty, which do not gatekeep the rest of the players from reaching red-tier maps.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

There are two possible scenarios here:

you need to include what you consider your primary playerbase here as frankly neither of those scenarios are true if you get out of the top performers already.

Completely agree that more voices is better than less you get some good feedback (if they do actually read it) here from players of completely different strata.

making base game even harder: hard nay
aspirational content for challenge only: yay
aspirational content with exclusive best in game loot: nay

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Pizzarugi wrote:

GGG would have to completely upend literally everything about PoE to make it even come remotely close to Diablo 4 in terms of casual appeal. As it currently stands, it's level of difficulty and complexity still remains far and above every other modern ARPG to date. Grim Dawn and Last Epoch don't even come close, and they're already more difficult and complex than Diablo 3/4.

Making the game a little easier to let more people in isn't suddenly going to blur the line between this and the atrocity ActiBlizz are doing with their franchise. That is transcendent level of hyperbole.

I agree with every single word of this and signal boost it.