Buff difficulty of regular content

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Why do you write about t17 and ubers? This topic is not about them.

Because the topic over 30+ pages has become the overall difficulty of the game and weather there's been actual "powercreep" making the game too easy or wether this is mostly just meta followers refining their process.

I think that as an OP I would know if I changed my mind or not - and no, my topic is about campaign and early maps. This on the other hand is whataboutism.

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Nomancs wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Why do you write about t17 and ubers? This topic is not about them.

Because the topic over 30+ pages has become the overall difficulty of the game and weather there's been actual "powercreep" making the game too easy or wether this is mostly just meta followers refining their process.

I think that as an OP I would know if I changed my mind or not - and no, my topic is about campaign and early maps. This on the other hand is whataboutism.

No not really topics drift and tangents get followed assertions are made that are new. Those newer statements get replies. At some point build diversity and meta builds have been brought up because that is at the root of what meta followres see as "too easy" of course this needs to be discussed when you need a build that does T17's because they now gate progression thats going to be relevant to "regular content".

Whataboutism? Pretending the topic hasn't evolved and drifted off the initial post and on to extended but very much related tangents could be seen as just that.

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alhazred70 wrote:

No not really topics drift and tangents get followed assertions are made that are new. Those newer statements get replies. At some point build diversity and meta builds have been brought up because that is at the root of what meta followres see as "too easy" of course this needs to be discussed when you need a build that does T17's because they now gate progression thats going to be relevant to "regular content".

Whataboutism? Pretending the topic hasn't evolved and drifted off the initial post and on to extended but very much related tangents could be seen as just that.

Again, this topic is about campaign and early maps, stop diverting it to something else and then argue against it. If you wish to discuss t17 maps there are other topics about them

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Nomancs wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

No not really topics drift and tangents get followed assertions are made that are new. Those newer statements get replies. At some point build diversity and meta builds have been brought up because that is at the root of what meta followres see as "too easy" of course this needs to be discussed when you need a build that does T17's because they now gate progression thats going to be relevant to "regular content".

Whataboutism? Pretending the topic hasn't evolved and drifted off the initial post and on to extended but very much related tangents could be seen as just that.

Again, this topic is about campaign and early maps, stop diverting it to something else and then argue against it. If you wish to discuss t17 maps there are other topics about them

The last 3 or so pages of this thread have mostly been discussion about if the game has actually been powercreeped or not. And also whether you already have perfectly good options to make regular content harder that don't require changes that effect everyone adversely. Also in the last three or four pages Archnem has been discussed as something that made regular content harder that basically no one liked. AKA pointing out that what you want is mostly unpalatable to most POE players.

I bring up Ubers and T17's along with a bunch of stuff that MORE DIRECTLY applies to "regular content" as a counter point to the idea that the game is "easier" now. But also because Ubers and T17's raised the bar for what constitutes a successful build, naturally this bar raising in the meta makes you feel like "regular content" is easier as your builds now need to tackle Ubers and T17's. And thus are even more meta gamed and thus more able to trivialize easy mode content.

Do you honestly see no relationship between setting a higher bar and clearing regular content by a wider margin?

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alhazred70 wrote:

The last 3 or so pages of this thread have mostly been discussion about if the game has actually been powercreeped or not. And also whether you already have perfectly good options to make regular content harder that don't require changes that effect everyone adversely. Also in the last three or four pages Archnem has been discussed as something that made regular content harder that basically no one liked. AKA pointing out that what you want is mostly unpalatable to most POE players.

So, you speak on behalf on most poe players? doubt it. Campaign and early maps are trivial, power creep is huge, be it in form of, league by league, drop buffs or old league mechanics tailored into campaign to give more gear.

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alhazred70 wrote:

I bring up Ubers and T17's along with a bunch of stuff that MORE DIRECTLY applies to "regular content" as a counter point to the idea that the game is "easier" now. But also because Ubers and T17's raised the bar for what constitutes a successful build, naturally this bar raising in the meta makes you feel like "regular content" is easier as your builds now need to tackle Ubers and T17's. And thus are even more meta gamed and thus more able to trivialize easy mode content.

I will remind you one more time - I am asking about campaign and early maps. If you want to discuss T17 and Ubers there are other topics on forum. Please stop with this whataboitism.

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Nomancs wrote:

So, you speak on behalf on most poe players? doubt it. Campaign and early maps are trivial, power creep is huge, be it in form of, league by league, drop buffs or old league mechanics tailored into campaign to give more gear.

I'm sorry I guess you were not around or reading the forums during the Archnemesis debacle the TL;DR is that it was REALLY unpopular as the other poster alluded to.

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alhazred70 wrote:

I will remind you one more time - I am asking about campaign and early maps. If you want to discuss T17 and Ubers there are other topics on forum. Please stop with this whataboitism.

Since you've dodged the question I'll ask again:

Do you honestly see no relationship between setting a higher bar and clearing regular content by a wider margin?

Hammering on about how my argument is off topic when it directly pertains and then ignoring my question that logically shows that it pertains to your argument is the only "whataboutism" being used here.

I'm sorry for my part in participating in the natural drift of a thirty page thread but I don't feel like you have a right to exclude relevant related topics that address the base premise of the OP.

I am tempted to ask GGG moderators if the OP of a thread has a right under the TOS to use passively threatening "I'll remind you one more time" language to try and suppress my point without addressing it. Lots of people besides myself have brought up tangents and related aspects of this discussion so its puzzling to me why you're singling me out when we've got the last three pages filled with tangents many of which you have participated in.

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

So, you speak on behalf on most poe players? doubt it. Campaign and early maps are trivial, power creep is huge, be it in form of, league by league, drop buffs or old league mechanics tailored into campaign to give more gear.

I'm sorry I guess you were not around or reading the forums during the Archnemesis debacle the TL;DR is that it was REALLY unpopular as the other poster alluded to.

You mean the little uproar of the tiny minority of the playerbase along with the fomo of some cause god touched mobs scary while they praise the heck out of loot explosions during the affliction league?
Sorry but the opinion of your favorite steamers that got upset about their slightly harder hc adventures thanks to AN having impact on the early game, yes early game also does not equal "most of the poe player"
But hey you barely played any of the leagues with the so scary and bad AN involved so you wouldn't know :)

Just lot's of steamer biased parrot takes across many different topic areas hoho

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Pashid wrote:

You mean the little uproar of the tiny minority of the playerbase along with the fomo of some cause god touched mobs scary while they praise the heck out of loot explosions during the affliction league?
Sorry but the opinion of your favorite steamers that got upset about their slightly harder hc adventures thanks to AN having impact on the early game, yes early game also does not equal "most of the poe player"
But hey you barely played any of the leagues with the so scary and bad AN involved so you wouldn't know :)

Just lot's of steamer biased parrot takes across many different topic areas hoho

LOL little uproar... okay man. even many of the try hards ended up disliking it after the fact, but they were hardly some cabal of crying HC streamers you imply. a lot of the HC streamers liked AN even when some of them recognized why so many people were upset.

Alk made fun of reddit essays that were complaining live on Stream, so did Quin69, Tarke (some of his last streams) liked AN but felt it was probably bad for most players, Ziz as I recall felt similar. Who are these outraged HC thought leaders you're talking about?

I think the people who cared the least about AN were once again: meta players who are trivializing the game by such a wide margin that AN was only an occasional speed bump.

Like "Hey what was that weird monster that lived for 500ms instead of being instantly exploded? must have been lag or something"

hey OP... try ruthless. You will be in your element.

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alhazred70 wrote:

LOL little uproar... okay man. even many of the try hards ended up disliking it after the fact, but they were hardly some cabal of crying HC streamers you imply. a lot of the HC streamers liked AN even when some of them recognized why so many people were upset.

The few people on reddit and the few topics here on the forum do actually equal nothing more but a little uproar in perspective to the entire existing playerbase or do you actually believe that the few reddit people along with the tiny forum community and your favorite streamer make up the entire playerbase?
In fact even with the slightly harder enemies people did crush early game just fine lol.

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I think the people who cared the least about AN were once again: meta players who are trivializing the game by such a wide margin that AN was only an occasional speed bump.

Most people didn't care as AN wasn't much of a problem past early game once every build started to ramp up. Even off meta builds could laugh their ass off at how little impact AN had past the early game progression and it was only lethal for those with a terrible build aka all those glass cannon 20ehp "I'm tanky" heroes that even still die these days to the watered down versions.

But hey at least GGG is also aware of the early power creep and they did cut down a bit of the early game power with this league. Sorry if Ben didn't mentioned that in his thoughts about the patch notes lol

But it's not really set yet if it's going to change a lot at all about the early power creep but GGG is most certainly going into the right direction by adjusting player power in early game.

Gonna be a banger league with the usual HC suspects finding new things to complain about simply cause they didn't played well enough and people talking over their opinion while the rest of own thinking players is going to have a blast hoho