Showcase of 0.5. melts bosses in seconds - WTF?!
" Correction, who knew that PoE2 would become PoE1 even though they specifically separated the two games to make combat good so that nobody can say combat is bad ever again (Jonathan's words). Oh and to fix melee.. lol. "Sigh"
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We didn't see their gear, they made the build with developer tools, thus it probably has gear that is extremely overpowered and hard to get.
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" melee is hands down better in POE2. I know, it is the only archetype I ever play. it's mace auto attack for bosses and rolling slam for clear. . .and that's it. no flaming projectiles and fissures, no screaming like a Karen, or plopping down a carved tree trunk. . . just a simple pure melee enjoyer. . . |
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There are two types of gamers, those that likes their fun fast paced, others at a slower pace. Sadly for us, the majority of them are of the fast pace kind. As usual, the quality must debase itself to the quantity, the plebs, the lowest common denominator as a company focuses on maximizing profits.
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" Except people don't pile onto the latest meta build because of the intrinsic fun-factor of the play-style itself. They do so because the game is driven by a loot acquisition incentive, and those builds have the perception of being optimal at farming loot. They play these builds because of fomo. If you took away the loot acquisition aspect from those meta builds, far fewer players would seek them out and play them. The AoE clear meta is already distilling gameplay down to a very simple repeating cycle. The 'fun' aspect is supposedly supplemented by the build-planning aspect of the game, which is then bypassed to emulate what is popular by copying a build plan. Why do players choose to skip the fun of their own build creation process, in order to have a build which offers a trivialized game-play loop? Because the game incentivizes progression through the collection of loot, and AoE clear meta builds which are measured in tinks per hour offer the answer to that incentive. " The irony is that it's the very people who choose to seek out the meta, and defend the existence of these builds, who cannot resist the fomo of being left behind by their competition. You would expect players to seek out the play-style which they personally find most appealing. But instead they gravitate toward play styles which they are unaware of a priori, and only later discover once people find the best loot acquisition method. This becomes the meta. It's extremely easy to take critical observations of the game balance, and interpret a fictional complaint based on jealousy, or wanting players to have less fun. But do you really think that people like IonSugeRau or myself, don't understand how to check PoE.ninja, or copy-paste the latest fubgun build? These ideas are well within our ability to emulate similar to newer players. That isn't the issue here. The genuine nature of our criticisms are twofold. - The first is that by virtue of broken builds existing, game balance is affected in such a way to be conducive to their existence. For example, if builds exist which can regenerate their entire hit-pool instantly while also clearing the screen with AoE, then the game must offer burst/one-shot mechanics to hit the player for their entire eHP, as an only means to kill such builds. This creates a game-play precedent which all other builds must adhere to one way or another. Before the life leech nerf was introduced for 0.5, people echoed the same sentiment; that people who have played arpgs for 25 years, thought the Bloodmage's superfluous sustain was bad for the game, were jealous because they couldn't emulate the methods that new and old players alike were copying from a guild. Well thank goodness for leech being nerfed, at least. The 'fun' of that exploitation won't be missed. - The second, is that whether or not we want to face the reality of the PvP aspect of the player trade economy existing, it exists nonetheless. People who know they will be seeking out the best loot-acquisition method as their means of 'fun' in the game, without knowing in advance what builds will be discovered and presented to them as the strongest meta, are intimately familiar with this aspect of the game, and its importance is much higher to them than assessing the moment-to-moment fun they are experiencing during their cycle of AoE clearing maps and pursuing faster clear speeds through further trivialization in order to maximize loot acquisition for their time investment. Summary: The game should offer plenty of space for experience and knowledge to separate experienced players from novice players. But you have to be aware how the game itself is balanced around the expectation of player power, and how trivialization affects the game from a game-play experience standpoint. Zoom is not fun. It's loot FOMO https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3879773 Last edited by WhisperSlade#0532 on May 23, 2026, 12:09:33 PM
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" Except people don't pile onto the latest meta build because of the intrinsic fun-factor of the play-style itself. They do so because the game is driven by a loot acquisition incentive, and those builds have the perception of being optimal at farming loot. They play these builds because of fomo. If you took away the loot acquisition aspect from those meta builds, far fewer players would seek them out and play them. The AoE clear meta is already distilling gameplay down to a very simple repeating cycle. The 'fun' aspect is supposedly supplemented by the build-planning aspect of the game, which is then bypassed to emulate what is popular by copying a build plan. Why do players choose to skip the fun of their own build creation process, in order to have a build which offers a trivialized game-play loop? Because the game incentivizes progression through the collection of loot, and AoE clear meta builds which are measured in tinks per hour offer the answer to that incentive. " The irony is that it's the very people who choose to seek out the meta, and defend the existence of these builds, who cannot resist the fomo of being left behind by their competition. You would expect players to seek out the play-style which they personally find most appealing. But instead they gravitate toward play styles which they are unaware of a priori, and only later discover once people find the best loot acquisition method. This becomes the meta. It's extremely easy to take critical observations of the game balance, and interpret a fictional complaint based on jealousy, or wanting players to have less fun. But do you really think that people like IonSugeRau or myself, don't understand how to check PoE.ninja, or copy-paste the latest fubgun build? These ideas are well within our ability to emulate similar to newer players. That isn't the issue here. The genuine nature of our criticisms are twofold. - The first is that by virtue of broken builds existing, game balance is affected in such a way to be conducive to their existence. For example, if builds exist which can regenerate their entire hit-pool instantly while also clearing the screen with AoE, then the game must offer burst/one-shot mechanics to hit the player for their entire eHP, as an only means to kill such builds. This creates a game-play precedent which all other builds must adhere to one way or another. Before the life leech nerf was introduced for 0.5, people echoed the same sentiment; that people who have played arpgs for 25 years, thought the Bloodmage's superfluous sustain was bad for the game, were jealous because they couldn't emulate the methods that new and old players alike were copying from a guide. Well thank goodness for leech being nerfed, at least. The 'fun' of that exploitation won't be missed. - The second, is that whether or not we want to face the reality of the PvP aspect of the player trade economy existing, it exists nonetheless. People who know they will be seeking out the best loot-acquisition method as their means of 'fun' in the game, without knowing in advance what builds will be discovered and presented to them as the strongest meta, are intimately familiar with this aspect of the game. The importance of being ahead of the economy is much higher to them than assessing the moment-to-moment fun they are experiencing during their cycle of AoE clearing maps and pursuing faster clear speeds through further trivialization in order to maximize loot acquisition for their time investment. Summary: The game should offer plenty of space for experience to separate knowledgeable players from novice players. But you have to be aware how the game itself is balanced around the expectation of player power, and how trivialization affects the game from a game-play experience standpoint. Zoom is not fun. It's loot FOMO https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3879773 Last edited by WhisperSlade#0532 on May 23, 2026, 1:00:31 PM
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Tbh, I genuinely think zoom is fun. If you halved the speed of Hades 2, I would have been bored with it personally.
I also do think grinding for currency is fun, but I do that in my hideout so the build barely matters. |
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" You are implying every single person that plays those builds is doing it 100% because of loot (trade). That in itself is not correct. I am a very case study of the point I am making here. I am not a trade tycoon. I am not a hideout warrior. I am not a 12 hour a day andy. I am casual by all means of the word. I work, I come home. If I have some spare time I pop on a game and enjoy. If a game becomes frustrating I don't play. On the inverse, if it is always no matter what I do easy, I get bored. This is where I agree with you in the most tiny of bits. BUT you are implying any "zoom" which I know you definition of it is vastly different than others from the previous thread you always go back to and link where we discussed this before. You refer to bloodmage being nerfed and that its sustain was a "fun" exploit. Ok, sure, bring it down. Instead they nuke ALL leech. That is the problem. In the attempt to tone one thing down, EVERYONE suffered. That is the point you do not like to admit. Not everyone is like you. Not everyone is like me either. There are players who find that leech for bloodmage to be exactly on theme. Others find it just a little too strong. Some find it broken and wanted it toned down. Even less find ALL leech too strong and that is the route the devs took. Again we have had this conversation multiple times in the past in other threads. The entire thing boils down to the same things I have already said... If you care about trade above all then you will ALWAYS play meta. You wanting the "zoom" gone but still wanting trade to be top priority is only demanding the game be tailored to exactly your liking. Being able to play a slow build but still get the top drops. That is why I keep saying the following... If you don't like the builds don't play them If you dont like the builds but care about trade more than anything then play meta to compete in trade or play SSF and play the exact way you want to bubt give up being a trade tycoon. If you want increased challenge then self impose some challenges (hold points, use weaker weapons, dont stack +levels, play bad skills, etc) If you want increased challenge but still want to play meta, HCSSF is already there. There are options for everything you want but again, the entire basis of your arguments boils down to trade being the top priority and not the gameplay. This does apply to all those who want to be trade tycoons as well. If you feel the need to play a "zoom" build even though you don't want to, then you care about trade more than anything. Until they actually make defense mean something in the game besides GG ES gear where you can tank almost anything and it is achievable for the majority of players, then monster damage needs to come WAY down. Then the leech/sustain nerfs make more sense to give attrition style boss fights. Then the player damage can come down as well. But they still need to buff bad/non used skills which they refuse to do for some reason. If all this is done then the game will be in a better spot. But only doing 1-2 of these things will not be enough and it will be a one shot or get one shot meta always. |
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" For sure, ideal speed is not a universal truth and its suitability is dependent on different overall designs and structures. There is a common confusion in these discussion where "speed" conflates mobility and the actual interaction between monsters. There's a difference between being mobile in a fight, and the fight ending within seconds. So it depends on which one you are referring to, but I'll submit that the conditions for the second one, bosses dying instantly, is probably not usually ideal. " There's absolutely nothing wrong with the loot acquisition incentive of the game. It's what we love about arpgs. But I just want it to be part of people's awareness, that the loot acquisition can, and often does, hijack our perceptions of fun. You can see this for example, in people using tower (sextant) farming strategies. Very popular if you want to min/max loot acquisition. But does its effectiveness, and by extension its popularity, equate to it being ideal or fun design? I think players should always ask this question when they notice how the most popular builds, are the best at loot farming, before they jump to the conclusion that it must be the 'fun' players are gravitating toward. |
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" Exceptions always exist, and we must always speak in generalities when describing a large body of people. I described an incentive structure, and spoke about tendencies and popularity, not universal truths. The point is not that all players conform to this behavior. It's that the incentive structure exists, and that it can skew perceptions of 'fun' where players often choose meta play-styles when it shares a relationship to optimal loot acquisition strategies. Last edited by WhisperSlade#0532 on May 23, 2026, 12:55:07 PM
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