Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

You continue to see a player repeatedly dying as some great sin that the player must be dissuaded from. Why? How does it hurt the game for players to face challenges that require multiple deaths to overcome?

I give up. There is no clearer way how I can explain it.

There is nothing to overcome. No challenge. The reasons for death I listed for which the solution is lowering the difficulty or improving gear are simply hard equipment checks. There is nothing to be done with skill. Nothing to overcome.

You either have the minimum needed equipment or your character dies. These are the only two options for these types of deaths. That's it. Please read death 3 and 4 again.

How is it possible that you do not understand this?

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

And you still refuse to answer the question:

How does it hurt the game for players to repeatedly throw themselves at difficult challenges, dying many times before clearing it? Why is this something that the player must be taught to avoid?

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

There is no challenge to overcome. Your character either has the minimum needed equipment and survives or the character does not and dies.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

And you still refuse to answer the question:

How does it hurt the game for players to repeatedly throw themselves at difficult challenges, dying many times before clearing it? Why is this something that the player must be taught to avoid?

The situation your are asking about simply does not exist. How do you not get that? Just read death method 3 and 4.

These types of deaths are hard equipment checks.

There is no challenge to overcome. Your character either has the minimum needed equipment and survives or the character does not and dies.

You are talking about an imaginary situation that does not exist. Therefor it is impossible to answer it. It is non existent.

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

Fine - I'll grant you those deaths are gear checks. I'm not talking about any specific deaths - I'm talking generally. You've said repeatedly in this thread that players need to be taught not to keep attempting content where they die. Why?

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

One more time - How does it hurt the game for players to continually test themselves against challenges they repeatedly fail? Why is that something the game must punish the player for?

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

1) Bugs - I am not aware of any, but some players say there are bugs causing unfair deaths. Not much the player can do. Solution: GGG fixes the bugs.

2) Unfair one shot mechanics. GGG has already started improving on them. By now, for my personal taste, there are almost no extreme one shot mechanics left that would cause you to die constantly. Maybe once now and then, but not enough to prevent leveling. Here the player could only try to play extra carefully and look specifically for the worst offenders. Maybe this way some deaths can be prevented. Solution: GGG improves on one shots.

3) The player gets overrun with mobs. This can easily happen in Breach or Ritual since a lot of monsters are spawning next to the player. This is a simple gear check. The character has to do enough damage to kill the monsters quickly or have enough defense to be able to tank a lot of monsters at the same time. Solution: Improve gear or lower difficulty.

4) Constant incoming damage. Mostly due to the large number of monsters in the map, shooting projectiles, leap attacks, ground effects and so on. This is a simple gear check. The character needs enough defenses to avoid, mitigate and recover more damage than the character is taking because it is simply impossible to avoid everything. Solution: Improve gear or lower difficulty.

5) Misunderstanding of mechanics. Like trying to block ground effects, or not knowing that bombs thrown by enemies can shotgun, using Chaos Inoculation with a mana flask that removes life on use. Things like these are basically just experience. There is not really much that can be done, other then, when a player dies they ask the question "How did I die?" and look for answers to build up that experience. Solution: Try to find out why your character died.

6) Getting hit by telegraphed hard hitting attacks/spells. Many regular enemies have attacks or spells that hit very hard and should be avoided by the player. Or for example these white exploding balls from Expedition or the purple plants. Solution: Avoid/Dodge these attacks/spells or improve gear to a point where the character does not get one shot by these or lower difficulty.

Every death that I have encountered or have heard of so far, could be put into one of those six categories. 1 and 2 are on GGG's side and they are working on it. 5 is simply experience that is built over time. And for me the most common I have seen 3, 4 and 6 all can be avoided by improving the gear or lowering the difficulty or 6 also by playing better.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

"

BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Dude, for the n-th time: nobody gives a shit about one-shots.
...
You still haven't acknowledged how dying to random bugs and having hours of progress wiped is somehow a reason for why it needs to stay.

You are correct. I did forget about random bugs. Can you please elaborate on these bugs? I don't know of any and have not encountered any that would kill my character so far.

"

Because Bonechill's increased cold damage taken is applied by chill and based on chill effect, it is normally capped to 30%, has no effect on enemies Unaffected by Chill, and will affect the player when their chill is reflected (e.g. by Non-Damaging Ailments you inflict are reflected back to you).

"

BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

You for real, dude? Literally page 2 of this thread and literally my first reply to you. And you might be wondering why I'm starting to get upset with you after +20 pages. I think it should come as no surprise, at all.

And this is PoE 1, by the way. PoE 2 by comparison is even more riddled with bugs and scuffed balance.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Yes, I can remember. Because it is PoE 1 I immediately discarded this.

This is the PoE 2 Discussion forum. Not the PoE 1 forum.

There is no Bonechill in PoE 2. According to PoE2DB there is no reflect non damaging ailments modifier for waystones in PoE 2 (and I have found none in the two tabs of waystones I have).

"

BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

The most "Avaricta" of responses possible. Thank you for that. It clearly shows why this entire discussion does not need your input. You are so disconnected, it's unreal.

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

The game should ENCOURAGE players to juice the maps up to the point they will likely die. Bosses should be expected to kill you three or four times before you learn the mechanics, and then you'll still need to execute everything properly to clear them.

Maps should have packs of mobs and rare spawn that have a good chance of killing the well-geared player.

The XP penalty prevents the dev team from designing and implement this content.
It is making the game EASIER, not harder.