Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

I attempted to enjoy PoE 1 multiple times and every single time I stopped because I hit a wall with my character where I couldn't continue having fun toying around and trying out things because I usually die doing so. -.-*

so you think you will progress forever once 'death penalty' is removed? you do know the limit is lvl100 right?

people forget they are not actually losing anything due to XP penalty, you simply will not get a reward of a level up if you keep dying. btw if you think the last 10 levels will make your build work, think again

Lets come back to my last question... What would change in your little perfect world if there was no EXP penalty? What prevents to from playing the way you play? Nothing... You just can't stand the fact that there is no mechanic that forces you to play like you do other other people can follow other playstyles and yours isn't the only valid anymore. That's at least what I read in your answers.

And again: Yes, the wall of "not being able to progress" will come one way or the other. But I will never find out where it is because I would risk a lot of EXP doing so. This might not be bad on ly 76 ... 1 magic map tier 6 and i got the EXP back. So 1.5 Tier 5 maps. But doing so on lv 90 scares me from continuing the game because I know - right now - that I will hit this point depending on the character. And yes, 10-20 more skillpoints won't rescue the character. But at least I can farm with much less emotional stress.

To prevent reaching this point I have to farm my gear a few map tiers below what I call a challenge. But what happens if I geared up to play tier 6 "without" a challenge. Then I might need to run tier 8 or 9 to have a challenge but I can't because there is still a stupid EXP loss just for trying... So I continue on tier 5-6 where I have no challenge... get my point? It's not done by one try. Maybe I die from a bug, maybe from a lag (god knows there are enough at the moment) maybe I die from a boss or rare skill mechanic I did not know of. Considering all this makes me feel sad because I want to continue... I want to dumb in a few 1000 hours like I did on Grim Dawn or about 1.000 hours I did in Last Epoch. I would like to spend money every now and then to buy some cool stuff. But knowing what I just pointed out scares me to invest more time because I know I will be angry dying on lv 86 for what ever reason. Even worse if it's not my own fault.

So back to my question... What is your answer?

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

I attempted to enjoy PoE 1 multiple times and every single time I stopped because I hit a wall with my character where I couldn't continue having fun toying around and trying out things because I usually die doing so. -.-*

so you think you will progress forever once 'death penalty' is removed? you do know the limit is lvl100 right?

people forget they are not actually losing anything due to XP penalty, you simply will not get a reward of a level up if you keep dying. btw if you think the last 10 levels will make your build work, think again

Lets come back to my last question... What would change in your little perfect world if there was no EXP penalty? What prevents to from playing the way you play? Nothing... You just can't stand the fact that there is no mechanic that forces you to play like you do other other people can follow other playstyles and yours isn't the only valid anymore. That's at least what I read in your answers.

And again: Yes, the wall of "not being able to progress" will come one way or the other. But I will never find out where it is because I would risk a lot of EXP doing so. This might not be bad on ly 76 ... 1 magic map tier 6 and i got the EXP back. So 1.5 Tier 5 maps. But doing so on lv 90 scares me from continuing the game because I know - right now - that I will hit this point depending on the character. And yes, 10-20 more skillpoints won't rescue the character. But at least I can farm with much less emotional stress.

To prevent reaching this point I have to farm my gear a few map tiers below what I call a challenge. But what happens if I geared up to play tier 6 "without" a challenge. Then I might need to run tier 8 or 9 to have a challenge but I can't because there is still a stupid EXP loss just for trying... So I continue on tier 5-6 where I have no challenge... get my point? It's not done by one try. Maybe I die from a bug, maybe from a lag (god knows there are enough at the moment) maybe I die from a boss or rare skill mechanic I did not know of. Considering all this makes me feel sad because I want to continue... I want to dumb in a few 1000 hours like I did on Grim Dawn or about 1.000 hours I did in Last Epoch. I would like to spend money every now and then to buy some cool stuff. But knowing what I just pointed out scares me to invest more time because I know I will be angry dying on lv 86 for what ever reason. Even worse if it's not my own fault.

So back to my question... What is your answer?

bro, ask your question in a clear manner. "What would change in your little perfect world if there was no EXP penalty?" wtf are you asking here?

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

The XP penalty serves a very important purpose and must not be removed.

It disincentivizes players to just mindlessly bash their heads against the wall and die over and over in content their character is not yet fit to play.

When you reach a point in an ARPG where you keep dying, the game is trying to tell you that your character is too weak for that kind of content. It is an obstacle that is presented to you to overcome. It is part of the progression of an ARPG.

Nonsense. I grinded out hours of juiced T16s on my lvl 99 toon and had no problem at all with endgame content, then I randomly died to a bug that still hasn't been fixed, as far as I'm aware (Bonechill applying damage taken to you with Eater of World altar's ailment reflect) with 110% reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken and overstacked Shock resist. Hours of progress lost, but yeah, dude, my "character isn't ready for that content." 🙄

the exp penalty does annoy me a lot from the stand point that it is too harsh 95+, so, I usually start a new char around then. Before that it isn't that big of a deal. Maybe instead of removing it, they should smooth it out, so that dying at 76 is not any different than dying at 95. That would probably make more sense from a logical stand point and still keep the penalty in.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

bro, ask your question in a clear manner. "What would change in your little perfect world if there was no EXP penalty?" wtf are you asking here?

Ok - I'll ask it. How would your gameplay change if the XP penalty didn't exist?
What would you do differently?

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

Let me put it this way. Let's say the game didn't have an XP penalty already.

How many people do you think would be asking for it, and what would their argument be?

Check and mate.

Exactly what I asked... My English simply s*cked :-D sorry for that. Typing too fast and it's not my native language.

The question is simple: What would change for you personally if the EXP Loss is removed for good? Not talking about bots, head bashing against walls and all that stuff. What would you do different if they patch the EXP loss out right now?

Would you start bashing your head against T16 maps with insane mods just because you won't lose any EXP? Would you go nuts on T15 Maps? Or would you continue the safe approach with T13 maps as you said. I am quite sure it's the T13/14 approach.

I can tell you what would change for me: I would continue running Lv 5 maps until the quest is full or until I don't have any left and need to buy some lv 1 maps and craft them to lv 3 to run them in the hopes you find lv 4 again, then lv 5 then lv 6 and so on. I wouldn't even bother playing maps I struggle too hard. But I can have a relaxed evening after work playing the map and mode I like to - even if its the worst crap mod. All I waste at this point are 15-20 minutes for the Map and the map itself. This wouldn't ruin my evening. But dying - even if it was my own fault - would annoy me if I loose EXP. I would repeat this cycle to a point where I can't stand the enemy damage or where I don't kill them fast enough. But since it takes longer and long to level up, I have time to farm items. And IF I farm something I would like to have a decent challenge.

Right now a magic Tier 5 Map with lv 76 is cleared in under 10 minutes but there is always the possibility of dying due to lag or bugs. Happened at least 6 times during the campaign and 1 time in a Map (did not notice the EXP loss because I did not pay attention) So I did not care other than the lost map.

And you telling me I have to run T2-3 maps in order to be "save" while I can handle Tier 6/7. None of the easy stuff is a problem but maybe bosses.

So yet again: What would change for you personally if they patch it out right now? Would you play any less? Would you stop playing?

And again: Yes, lv 100 is the target. But it's a personal feeling that I don't want to feel the loss of progress on the EXP bar. The punishment is already enough.

+1

Coming from one of the most casual Andy's when it comes to ARPGs, yet have been gaming for decades... I have yet to find anything so terrible about their overall system right now. Yes the XP loss was an annoying shocker when I noticed it. But at the end, I was like "well shit, I gotta take this slower and more methodically"

I also have a buddy who notoriously hates anything of the "souls-like" difficulty/caliber (I personally love the pain lol), and he is loving the game so far as well.

It is kind of funny hearing all of the "hate" regarding the difficulty. Yet here I am, playing with a self-described "souls-like hater" almost nightly and into maps, and even he has said "yeah... this all feels fair. Even though we died 10x or so on The Executioner"

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

bro, ask your question in a clear manner. "What would change in your little perfect world if there was no EXP penalty?" wtf are you asking here?

Ok - I'll ask it. How would your gameplay change if the XP penalty didn't exist?
What would you do differently?

nothing at all, i would reach the 100 faster. hit yet another hard ceiling diminishing my enjoyment of the game. because no more progress can be made in that aspect.