Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

The XP Penalty is garbage. Encourages you to play safe and boring for a long, long, long time, not taking any chances, keeping to lower tiered content, not juicing those waystones, avoiding half the league contents, etc, until you reach 100. Then suddenly you can die all you want and have all the fun you want!!? This progression doesn't make any sense.

With all the penalties already in place (you lose your map and map sustain is terrible at higher tiers, you lose the loot, you lose all the map bonuses) why do we need an XP penalty?

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

So what was your goal with PoE?

PoE1 was modelled on Diablo 2, D2 had XP loss so PoE1 has it.

PoE2 is modelled on PoE1, PoE1 has xp loss so PoE2 has it.

That's all you need to know to understand why it's a thing in PoE2.

Oh, and the PoE elite like it because it helps them keep their exclusivity by making a big contribution to keeping the 'scrubs' from level 100.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Let me put it this way. Let's say the game didn't have an XP penalty already.

How many people do you think would be asking for it, and what would their argument be?

Was going to say exactly the same thing.

It is in the game because it was in Diablo 2. It was a bad feature in D2 and it's still a bad feature today.

In POE2 it is even worse because they have devised interesting systems where you can push your luck or not and every try has material and opportunity costs. It is completely unnecessary to additionally remove xp.

If it were not already here absolutely nobody would be campaigning for it to be added, just like nobody campaigns for it to be added in any other ARPG.

It simply adds an annoying soft cap to your progress and prevents you from having fun trying content that is difficult for you. Or which the game is encouraging you to do because you completed the previous quests.

What exactly is wrong with wanting to kep trying difficult content? If you don't survive at least most of the time it is never the most efficient, efficiency is always doing unchallenging content quickly. There are other costs that don't make the player go backwards.

It doesn't force me to improve my build, my build is already as good as I can make it without better gear or changing it completely.

It's elitist nonsense that has no place in a modern game.

I Think to balance this a little more forgiving:

Would be to to cut the XP loss in half
THEN give like a 10-15% XP GAIN DEBUFF for the next 10Mil Xp

well ''git good'' is the only decent reply

It just means your build or your gameplay suck

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Arcturus_Blake#6989 wrote:

well ''git good'' is the only decent reply

It just means your build or your gameplay suck

I love how your 4 Deadeyes are lvl 95, 95, 94 and 92.

You have a single lvl 100 character, dude. And it's a full tank Carrion Golem build. All you play is some type of ranged build, with the exception of a Cyclone guy.

It's always hilarious to me where these "git gud" comments are coming from.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Maps are not a challenge. Maps are not meant to be a challenge. If you try to misuse them as a challenge and then bear the consequences it is on you, not the game. You are trying to misuse a saw to loosen a screw. That is not what the tool was made for. You are trying to play the game as something it was not made to do.

Someone else wrote that if they do not die in 1 out of 4 maps they do not consider it challenging. For PoE this is completely insane. You are not meant to die that often in maps. Maybe once in 100 maps would be ok, If you die more often then that you are doing something wrong.

Circular argument. You think of maps this way becquse that's how you are used to treating them, how you must treat them, because of the death penalties. That's not a valid argument to keep the penalty. Take away the xp loss and dying 1/4 would still be bad but at least you wouldn't go backwards. Saying you are only meant to die 1/100 maps is not an argument - it is an understanding based on the punishing death penalties. Take away the penalties and the point no longer stands.

But firstly this is a new game with new players who do not conform to poe1 groupthink.

Secondly and more importantly, clearly GGG have designed maps to be a push you luck mechanic. Where the player is encouraged to plug more difficult waystones for greater rewards, at the risk of dying and losing the waystone (and map features but that's another topic). Or add passives that increase the challenge.

The loss is already there because it costs waystones to try and if you die too much you will run out and be forced to play weaker maps. So that idea is built in without removing player progress.

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Orion_3T#5225 wrote:

Circular argument. You think of maps this way becquse that's how you are used to treating them, how you must treat them, because of the death penalties. That's not a valid argument to keep the penalty. Take away the xp loss and dying 1/4 would still be bad but at least you wouldn't go backwards. Saying you are only meant to die 1/100 maps is not an argument - it is an understanding based on the punishing death penalties. Take away the penalties and the point no longer stands.

But firstly this is a new game with new players who do not conform to poe1 groupthink.

Hey, you guys who think like that, you do you. Just don't be surprised about the outcome.

The core functionality of maps is to farm currency/items. That is why we run maps. That has nothing to do with being used to it or with an XP penalty. This is simply their purpose.

The map system is built in a way that it covers a large range of character/build power.

Starting out directly after campaign in tier 1 maps most characters will be relatively weak and they need to farm lower tier maps for the first bit of currency/items. This is a natural progression. Of course there are exceptions depending on drop luck or for some meta builds or the top 1% of 1% of god gamers who can skip a large part of the early endgame.

Then the mapping system offers 15 additional tiers + additional content + atlas passives that increase the difficulty of that content. Each tier, each mechanic and each atlas passive for mechanics increasing the difficulty and loot of the map. Designed for characters getting stronger and stronger. Improving of the character is rewarded by the possibility to farm the more difficult content and farm more efficiently. This is the natural progression of the game.

If you want to "challenge" yourself in maps and you keep dying, loosing half the map, take three times as long to clear a map ... you simply hinder yourself in your progress by not following the natural character progression. You can still do it this way if you want. Nobody will stop you. Just keep in mind that it was your decision.

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Orion_3T#5225 wrote:

Secondly and more importantly, clearly GGG have designed maps to be a push you luck mechanic. Where the player is encouraged to plug more difficult waystones for greater rewards, at the risk of dying and losing the waystone (and map features but that's another topic). Or add passives that increase the challenge.

The loss is already there because it costs waystones to try and if you die too much you will run out and be forced to play weaker maps. So that idea is built in without removing player progress.

It is not push your luck. It is a "you improved your character enough to increase the difficulty further" - loop until you reach a point where you can comfortably farm fully juiced t16 maps with all possible contents. It is a reward system for improving your character.

But if you really see it as push your luck, then it is still your decision how much risk you take. If you take too much risk and fail, then it still was your decision. So there is no reason to complain about your own decision.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Arcturus_Blake#6989 wrote:

well ''git good'' is the only decent reply

It just means your build or your gameplay suck

I love how your 4 Deadeyes are lvl 95, 95, 94 and 92.

You have a single lvl 100 character, dude. And it's a full tank Carrion Golem build. All you play is some type of ranged build, with the exception of a Cyclone guy.

It's always hilarious to me where these "git gud" comments are coming from.

cus meele in poe 1 was crap. i had no need to chase 100, did it on one char just to do it. I could've done breaches or 5 ways to get 100 but had no need for it

with those 4 i could do most of the content, didn't really care about ubers so was enough for me.

I mean the op made shit builds got pissy and quit. so yes git good or follow a guide on how to make a decent build

Edit: had to check deadeyes weren't even for doing all content just mapping and having fun, didn't even push to min max builds XD 94 lighting arrow i quit, and 92 i had to work so didn't play much

Example my 97 hierro could do feared easy and it's only 97, why would i push for 100 when i had a good build going on?

I'm against the EXP penalty when dying because it makes the gum less fun.