Bex Confirms ExileCon is the Jumping-Off Point for Path of Exile 2's Marketing

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1453R wrote:

Am I?

Tell me, Bauer. What would you prefer Grinding Gear be using development resources on, other than Path of Exile 2? If you were Chris Wilson for a day, where would you redeploy the PoE2 team and assets?

What does that got to do with anything?

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鬼殺し wrote:

Fuck. You made me repeat it.

I just don't think what you view as 'good' and/or 'bad' are necessarily shared by GGG.

Personally, I don't think they have to make a new game. Sure, some weight loss, trimming and tuning are probably in place (and coming), but the loyal players still view PoE as the best ARPG out there. I think it's only fair to build upon the game they love - and make an effort to bring that experience to the "next generation".

And I don't really think you repeated it; I was actually looking for some direct examples you want them to change in a "new game", which they are directly unable to change in 4.0. In my eyes, 4.0 is a chance for them to change exactly what they want to change, keep everything they deem as 'good', scrap most of what they deem as 'bad'. Starfield took what, 8 years? And they've spent more than 5 on PoE 4.0? They've had time to do what they want to do.

And I don't necessarily think that dragging the old acts along is a bad move. And I seriously doubt it will be permanent, but rather a transition period.

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bauermayers wrote:

What does that got to do with anything?

Has to do with the fact that, as I said, many of the people pushing the 4.0 terminology are doing so as part of an effort to dismiss Path 2. They want players to stop talking about it, and they want Grinding Gear to stop working on it. To simply abandon the project altogether in favor of endless chase-their-tails tweaks to Path of Exile 1. "Stop wasting time on 4.0 and make melee better", "stop wasting time on 4.0 and fix loot", "stop wasting time on 4.0 and do frictionless trade already", stop wasting time on 4.0 and..."

So what's yours? What's the chasing-tail PoE1 tweak you'd have them permanently abandon all production and development of Path 2 to jump on instead?

There is NO WAY the intended launch date is THAT far away Q4 24 latest. Chris said they know how many leagues they have until POE releases like a year ago was he thinking 20?!!?! And I find it hard to believe they are announcing it and then gonna tell us 2026 like some are acting. My revised guess is Beta later this year and launch next year...much past that and they should have held Exilecon until next year.

PLEASE SAY IT AIN SO...

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1453R wrote:

many of the people pushing the 4.0 terminology are doing so as part of an effort to dismiss Path 2. They want players to stop talking about it, and they want Grinding Gear to stop working on it. To simply abandon the project altogether

Many? Who? I've not seen anyone call for the abandonment of PoE2, like at all. I don't want to stop talking about it, I want to talk more about it actually, but we have fuck all to discuss in detail.

And there is no "pushing 4.0 terminology", that is how GGG patches, and what the PoE2 expansion release will be. That is a fact.

Now we can debate on whether or not PoE2 is a new game, whether marketing it as such when it is an expansion is wise/shady, and after 5 years does the scope of what they are doing reflect that time investment?

Unless you have examples of people here calling for GGG to stop work on PoE2, I think you are projecting WAY too much.

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Phrazz wrote:

And I don't necessarily think that dragging the old acts along is a bad move. And I seriously doubt it will be permanent, but rather a transition period.

I would bet that the old acts have been redone with not only improved art, but changes to the progression. I would not be surprised if there are now fewer than 10 Acts. Leaving Act 1-10 intact makes no sense at all. They will redo them to make them fit with the new style of play found in the new ones.

If they don't do this upon release, then they will have it as one of the new leagues that follow the release: 4.12 or something.

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Phrazz wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

Fuck. You made me repeat it.

I just don't think what you view as 'good' and/or 'bad' are necessarily shared by GGG.

Personally, I don't think they have to make a new game. Sure, some weight loss, trimming and tuning are probably in place (and coming), but the loyal players still view PoE as the best ARPG out there. I think it's only fair to build upon the game they love - and make an effort to bring that experience to the "next generation".

And I don't really think you repeated it; I was actually looking for some direct examples you want them to change in a "new game", which they are directly unable to change in 4.0. In my eyes, 4.0 is a chance for them to change exactly what they want to change, keep everything they deem as 'good', scrap most of what they deem as 'bad'. Starfield took what, 8 years? And they've spent more than 5 on PoE 4.0? They've had time to do what they want to do.

And I don't necessarily think that dragging the old acts along is a bad move. And I seriously doubt it will be permanent, but rather a transition period.

Okay, but I am repeating myself here. I have said that a new game with this incoming gem system as a core feature would be very good, whereas shoe-horning it into the existing PoE is almost certainly giving them BTS nightmares. PoE's major difference from other arpgs from the getgo has been the socketed skill/support items setup. It is its identity -- other games have passive webs/grids (FFX as a simple example) but none have tried to emulate what GGG did when they took FFVII's materia system and exploded it. PoE2's would have been what I read as an exploding of Sacred 2's skill system -- skills drop, and you modify them directly. It is such a departure from PoE's approach it deserves its own game, bespoke and balanced for it.

It is not getting that.

I have no beef with how long 4.0 is taking. Obviously. I don't care how much they want to change. My argument is much simpler: don't call it Path of Exile 2 unless it is a new game, my parameters for which exist within this thread and others. Don't play marketing tricks. Don't dismiss the validity of 2.0 and 3.0 as major milestones. Don't confuse players for the sake of trying to compete with a non-competitor -- or acknowledge said competitor and think long and hard why they are now competitors. How could this poor little community escape the DIV vs PoE2 trap when GGG themselves essentially set it up?

Set it up and then didn't bring something genuinely new to the table, just a lot of upgraded and expanded old with a sticker that says NEW!

Exiles are eating it up but unless "Path of Exile 2" feels as dramatic a shift from "Path of Exile 1" as DIV was from D3, it's not going to pay off as a renewal aimed at bringing in a significant amount of fresh meat. And as I said as well -- that dramatic a shift runs the risk of alienating entrenched supporters. Do not for a second doubt that Tencent are pushing GGG to make PoE more Diablo-like. They know where the money is and it's not in being an elitist, dense, convoluted and newbie-unfriendly.

But as others have posited, maybe the plan is to catch those who bounce off DIV's accessibility and casual nature -- potential hardcore supporters. Valid. But I think that's underestimating the chasm between DIV's most complicated moments and PoE's least.

I don't imagine this will be a very pleasant topic a month from now, after GGG's formal declaration of war on Sanctuary. But it will be fascinating to see how they go about it. None of what I find enticing about DIV as a renewal of the franchise seems to be reflected in PoE 4.0 but as you pointed out correctly, many here already feel PoE is the best ARPG around, so who am I to judge?

Still, if that is true and to existing Exiles PoE is already The One, that "2" isn't for them, is it?

Who it is really for -- that is the question I expect to be addressed in July. Or at least hinted at.

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ChanBalam wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

And I don't necessarily think that dragging the old acts along is a bad move. And I seriously doubt it will be permanent, but rather a transition period.

I would bet that the old acts have been redone with not only improved art, but changes to the progression. I would not be surprised if there are now fewer than 10 Acts. Leaving Act 1-10 intact makes no sense at all. They will redo them to make them fit with the new style of play found in the new ones.

If they don't do this upon release, then they will have it as one of the new leagues that follow the release: 4.12 or something.

Probably. It'd be the smart thing to do. OTOH the pacing is imo beyond salvation. 4 is somehow both too long and too rushed. 6-9 all blur together but across 4 distinct biomes, each of which deserves its postlapsarian revisitation. 10 is lacking in impetus given its the climax. 1-3 remain the classic Piety arc and need the least revision due to several revisions already.

Rather than edit for length, what they should do is edit for relevance to The Atlas. That is to say, retcon like fucking crazy.

...retcon so much anyone else would just start over in another universe. Heh. Not like there are any stakes to be lost by Wraeclast going multiverse at this point -- I doubt many people could even present the stakes of PoE's plot right now.

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innervation wrote:

It's funny how much this thread sounded like Last Epoch discussion when they announced their final delay to the 0.9 multiplayer patch.

OMG THEY'RE GONNA MISS THEIR WINDOW THEY NEEEEEEED TO RELEASE ON THE 3RD SATURDAY BETWEEN POE LEAGUE AND D4 OPEN BETA WEEKEND OR THEY'LL MISS THEIR WINDOW AND NO ONE WILL EVER PLAY IF THEY DONT RELEASE EXACTLY WHEN I WANT TO PLAY THEN IM NEVER PLAYING THIS GAME ILL BE BUSY PLAYING X INSTEAD.

a whole lot of working themselves into a frenzy and taking the launch day they would personally prefer and extrapolating that to 'game can't succeed if it doesn't release on the schedule I'd pick'.

It's fine. The worst thing they could to is release a bad product. Make it good, then when its ready if you want to bump it by a week or two to avoid something big or capitalize on something (vacation availability, competitor oopsie) then do that but you don't rush a 5-6 year project out the door 12 months early just to hit some nebulous window of opportunity that may or may not even be real like holy fucking christ. That's a great way to throw a decades worth of work in the dumpster.

Litterally no one saying that, insane how some people live inside a creative distopia

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BlackDabera wrote:

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innervation wrote:

It's funny how much this thread sounded like Last Epoch discussion when they announced their final delay to the 0.9 multiplayer patch.

OMG THEY'RE GONNA MISS THEIR WINDOW THEY NEEEEEEED TO RELEASE ON THE 3RD SATURDAY BETWEEN POE LEAGUE AND D4 OPEN BETA WEEKEND OR THEY'LL MISS THEIR WINDOW AND NO ONE WILL EVER PLAY IF THEY DONT RELEASE EXACTLY WHEN I WANT TO PLAY THEN IM NEVER PLAYING THIS GAME ILL BE BUSY PLAYING X INSTEAD.

a whole lot of working themselves into a frenzy and taking the launch day they would personally prefer and extrapolating that to 'game can't succeed if it doesn't release on the schedule I'd pick'.

It's fine. The worst thing they could to is release a bad product. Make it good, then when its ready if you want to bump it by a week or two to avoid something big or capitalize on something (vacation availability, competitor oopsie) then do that but you don't rush a 5-6 year project out the door 12 months early just to hit some nebulous window of opportunity that may or may not even be real like holy fucking christ. That's a great way to throw a decades worth of work in the dumpster.

Litterally no one saying that, insane how some people live inside a creative distopia

page 1 someone says in all caps that poe2 is still 5 years away
page 4 someone says they need to launch a certain amount of time after D4 launch
page 4 someone says if it doesnt come out this year exilecon is a scam
page 5 'path of exile 2 - if they fucking release it'

I'm not even going to keep reading to provide examples. The posts here are how I characterized them.

I dont' understand what you have to gain by your post but maybe you meant to quote someone else?