what the fuck is cyberpunk

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awesome999 wrote:

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Morkonan wrote:

Most game devs use colorful language to obscure the fact they're really not doing anything innovative with their NPCs, but they're sure to make it sound like they are. Whenever I read some developer is making this claim, it's a warning sign that they're using a "marketing crutch" to hype their game.

Marketers use creative “trickery” to get us to buy things. Has always been the case, will continue to be so. Hyping up a game is normal marketing. Selling as much as they can is doing their job. Do you think it is otherwise?

see and this is what people need to start realizing. and sadly, everything is marketing. don't fall for it. or do, it doesn't matter, its your choice.

its alllllll marketing.
from clever wording to straight up lies that cannot be tested/verified by you to say otherwise...its all marketing. for everything.

Free mystery box when you spend points that are not free.

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xMustard wrote:

see and this is what people need to start realizing. and sadly, everything is marketing. don't fall for it. or do, it doesn't matter, its your choice.

its alllllll marketing.
from clever wording to straight up lies that cannot be tested/verified by you to say otherwise...its all marketing. for everything.

This cynical little jaunt out of the grazing pasture sure would have a lot more bite without all those supporter badges for a game owned by a soulless Chinese megacorp, but eh, I'm sure you feel like you get your money's worth. ^_^

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Morkonan wrote:

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lolozori wrote:

"Cyberpunk 2077 Has Over 1000 NPCs With Different Behaviors"...

That's something I noted in one of these "Cyberpunk" threads - The claim that all the NPCs in the game had specific "purpose" and "behavior" and "real lives in teh game zomgz."

There are few games I am familiar with that actually accomplished, more or less, that pre-release boast. Since the very first one I can think of, one of the "Neverwinter" games, IIRC, developers have been trying to cram that "realism" appeal in far too many roleplaying games. (The Neverwinter game in question simply had a "clock" that NPCs obeyed and homes and jobs to go to.)

The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion did a little bit of that. NPCs "did things" and had "places to go and stuffs." That does not mean they were colorful or interesting, it just meant that the developers took the time to assign "goals" for their simpleton little minds to fulfill during the day.

X3:Terran Conflict had it in all the ships one could see traveling around the galaxy - They were actually "doing something." Once one could scan them, one could see what goal they were trying to accomplish - They weren't just "window dressing." Some were going to trade things, some were on a patrol, some were going to a station on the other side of the galaxy, some were transporting prisoners, and the list goes on... One could actually follow one seemingly generic transport all the way to the place that their information showed they were going! They would go there and do "the thing," whatever it was. Then, they'd take a few seconds, figure out something else to do, and... go do it. Given that there could be, in certain circumstances, hundreds of such ships in a zone, it was truly pretty darn remarkable.

Most game devs use colorful language to obscure the fact they're really not doing anything innovative with their NPCs, but they're sure to make it sound like they are. Whenever I read some developer is making this claim, it's a warning sign that they're using a "marketing crutch" to hype their game.

"It's a living world!"

^--- Usually means the price is inflated by at least 20% for the play minimal value that "feature" ultimately delivers.

PS: I don't own the game and am not planning on buying it anytime soon. I do hope players eventually get the game they wanted to play, though.

TL;DR quality over quantity.

(Probably a wasted sentiment in a community full of Path of Exile players, but eh. Also, sorry -- couldn't resist using an ironic TL;DR. I actually did read it. Promise.)

I still struggle to understand why citizen NPC behavior is so important. Are we there to watch them or to play?

But then again, I never understood the need to build "player homes" (hideouts here) or to have "realistic needs". We are here to play, not to live.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I still struggle to understand why citizen NPC behavior is so important. Are we there to watch them or to play?

But then again, I never understood the need to build "player homes" (hideouts here) or to have "realistic needs". We are here to play, not to live.

Indeed.


NPCs just need to okayish so they dont stick out with their cringy-ness.

Problem is. If there are too many of them, then their bad AI will stick out.

Best example with CP2077 when you run in dozens of them like in a lively tourist city. In this case it looks very cringy when you see mutiple clones,with pepega animations, walk by.

Best would be ,if they cant fix the AI, to cut the NPC count in half or even more to make them less annoying.

Naaah, I love it. It is a new experience for me to have this many people around. In Witcher 3 we only had this many in a single city. If they can improve their AI - fine, if they can't - it doesn't bother me.

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awesome999 wrote:

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Morkonan wrote:

Most game devs use colorful language to obscure the fact they're really not doing anything innovative with their NPCs, but they're sure to make it sound like they are. Whenever I read some developer is making this claim, it's a warning sign that they're using a "marketing crutch" to hype their game.

Marketers use creative “trickery” to get us to buy things. Has always been the case, will continue to be so. Hyping up a game is normal marketing. Selling as much as they can is doing their job. Do you think it is otherwise?

Yes, it is "otherwise."

Because of the medium, they can get away with a lot more "dishonest" marketing. All they have to do is rely on "looks like" and they can say just about anything.

Game marketing is generally based from the reference point of the "experience." That "experience" is usually implied from the best possible case point-of-view. There are few physical properties touted for any of these sorts of games. They don't "market" how big it is, how many slaved-game slots there are, etc, though they may market certain in-game features like multiple races/classes, weapons, general gameplay and the like.

"These NPCs behave just like "real people" and have jobs and homes and relationships that make them "come to life!" <- Hype

"NPCs have a regimen based on time of day and react to each other based on the variables of sex, cultural class they have been assigned, and whether or not they're hungry. They are assigned to move from their home-spawn location to their assigned workshops based on time of day." <-- Truth

Since its all purely experiential, there's no real-life reference needed or required. Further, there's no possibility of enforcing "false advertisement" laws in most cases.

So, yes, it is a different sort of marketing. It's nearly a "license to lie." :)

How many games that actually sucked ended up marketing themselves as being "full of suck?" Even the auto-manufacturer Ford removed the "Pinto" from production after it was discovered it had a tendency to explode... Yet, "Spacebase DF-9" is still in Steam's inventory of saleable items. "Gnomoria" can still be bought even though the odds of playing a game all the way through without a catastrophic job-bug are next to nil. And, their sale pages still read like they're better than sex...

So, yeah, youbetcha - It's "different." :)

Nobody is going to be able to successfully sue a game developer for anything other than a product that does not "work." Even if it's buggy or crashes, as long as it works "most of the time" no marketing hype or description must be achieved in reality if it's based on experiential references and "gameplay" interpretations.

"This is a fun game" is a non-actionable statement. "This is a cool gun" is not actionable. "This car will not explode" is actionable. :)

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Morkonan wrote:

So, yeah, youbetcha - It's "different." :)

This is awkward. You kinda agree with me without even realizing it. Not liking something doesn't mean you disagree though.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

This cynical little jaunt out of the grazing pasture sure would have a lot more bite without all those supporter badges for a game owned by a soulless Chinese megacorp, but eh, I'm sure you feel like you get your money's worth. ^_^

say what?
ya i've donated a bunch to this game. not because of who owns it etc, but because i love this game and i knew i'd be playing it for years upon years.
also it wasn't a "soulless Chinese megacorp" then, not like that should matter. i bought things because i wanted to look badass.

also if you care to notice i haven't purchased a pack in a very long time. im not even quite sure when the last one i bought was but its probably been over a year.

anyway i've been very vocal about this cyberpunk garbage, essentially just telling people to wise up and hold companies accountable with your money. i feel the same way toward GGG. this isn't specifically why i haven't bought a pack in awhile, but people have all the right to withhold money from them if they don't like what they are doing/have done (like selling to Tencent).
all the more power to you, as the consumer. the power is yours, by the way. but unfortunately gamers are addicts and don't give a shit about quality. they just want the next fix and will put up with anything and pay anything to get it.

the way the whole CP thing went down, from years of hype, then refusing console reviewer copies, unable to have original footage in any review pre-release etc, to now it being an unplayable mess on old gen consoles and still a buggy crap show everywhere else, to apologizing and trying to gain back credibility by promising refunds which are REFUSED because cdpred forgot to mention (or cleverly left out of telling) that refunds are still subject to normal platform policies (dictated by Sony and the like) which is leading to people not getting refunds blah blah blah
its a shit show

i've been around this game for a very long time. since open beta. i haven't seen GGG go through any such controversy, and they're more open with their community than any other gaming company i've witnessed.
not exactly a comparable thing

but i get it, you're just a troll. i hope you feel accomplished that you got so many words out of me in a reply

Teehee. Gotcha.