game unplayable, some notes on why.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Op wasnt even talking about forged frostbearers either. They specifically said "new spectre's"

Aka the affliction ones that were brought back this league. And the haste tiger I think last I looked was 10 divs.



As for forged frost bearer build though. Ghazzy's is pretty standard tank and reliably good damage.

It isnt the topest of top kek damage but you could make that argument about anything that wasnt Tshot for 5 leagues+ in a row. Wouldnt really mean anything.

Perfectly capable of doing all content as well. Does more damage than my fire SRS build, and has more tank, and that could clear ubers just fine.

Yeah the frost bearers is a decent build and i never said it was bad i just hate the stupid flee mechanic, still think wretched defiler is better though if u can stand the eye cancer :) im not saying there is no decent options but they are nowhere near top tier meta builds and far from what spectres used to be back in the days and the investment needed is probably better spend elsewhere unless u really like the playstyle.

Even Ghazzy made a video on why spectres suck in 3.25 and i do tend to agree on most of his points, they are playable but its just too hard to get the amount of defensive layers needed and the zoomancer builds just outperforms pure spectres

"

MrPedez wrote:

Yeah the frost bearers is a decent build and i never said it was bad i just hate the stupid flee mechanic, still think wretched defiler is better though if u can stand the eye cancer :) im not saying there is no decent options but they are nowhere near top tier meta builds and far from what spectres used to be back in the days and the investment needed is probably better spend elsewhere unless u really like the playstyle.

Even Ghazzy made a video on why spectres suck in 3.25 and i do tend to agree on most of his points, they are playable but its just too hard to get the amount of defensive layers needed and the zoomancer builds just outperforms pure spectres

They probably gave them the slave driver ai which i dislike because slave drivers were the only spectre anyone would use for a very very long time followed by solar guards etc.. My suggestions to tune up the monster database for some years now have fallen on deaf ears which is too bad there's so many older monsters that we can raise but aren't able to be effective as a pet without some changes most of which would not affect the content the monsters are from very much if at all.

There's a Physical ball lightning casting monster called Templar Tactition for example from the Legion league but it has a really weak basic attack as well that it likes to keep using once its in range instead of its spells and a number of monsters have this behavior that if fixed when raised as spectre would produce tons of great builds.

"

MrPedez wrote:

nowhere near top tier meta builds and far from what spectres used to be back in the days and the investment needed is probably better spend elsewhere unless u really like the playstyle.

Yea I mean you could apply that to anything that isnt LS or Hexblast this league. Or as I mentioned previously, TShot for every league since I have played up until the last two.

This will always be the case in this game.

Unfortunately none of this is what the OP has said.


There are other pure spectre builds, including the returned affliction ones, to play. Such as the hydras, but they have that flee mechanic you do not like, then again they clear 2 screens so it doesnt matter how they move.

Hulking miscreation, Spirit of fortune (surprised this wasnt nerfed), Warlord(especially with the changes to end charges), Judgemental Spirit...

These are all strong options in spectre supports and pure spectre's that OP doesnt really acknowledge. And just kind of groups everything up as "bad, because I tried all of them... and they are bad, because they are bad"

You are defeintely right, there are stronger and less $$$ options, but again, thats true about a lot of things.

I dont think I have ever played the top damaging build and never struggled at any point of progression or completion, I'd like to think the thousands of players that dont play those builds also dont have that issue.

Its more of a talking point that has no real meaning behind it, yea LS is stronger than bleed Earthshatter (what I am playing), but so what? I did all content and didnt even spend anything doing it as well.

Just some thoughts on power comparison as it often doesnt really seem to matter.

It's more like when i do provide information the posts are ignored and then more posts are made saying im dismissing the topic.

I provided a number of informative bits and through civil discourse would be happy to expand but they were not digested, this is not my problem to fix.

Feel free to reply to the ones that were ignored entirely despite almost an entire page demanding i provide them and accusing me of avoiding the topic.

And honestly the guy making these claims in Ghazzy's name doesn't even know what buff the tiger spectre gives and is telling me i don't know what im talking about, Cmon lol.

I can probably name off every skill on just about every monster in the game and tell you its scalable damage types among other information, I'm not a computer with a perfect memory or anything but i've worked hard to gain my knowledge because of a real passion for this game.

I even typed a lot of information into a recently reply which was promptly deleted because of me quoting a post by someone else which was breaking the rules.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I provided a number of informative bits and through civil discourse would be happy to expand but they were not digested, this is not my problem to fix.

When? When did you provide ANY information to go on besides pivoting and literally nothing but dismissing what others have said?

You've provided exactly NO details to go on in all of your responses. The first time you actually mentioned any "details" a few posts ago....you severely walked back what you said in every previous response.

So where is this "civil discourse" we are supposed to be having? Because when one side offers nothing to the table, you can't have a conversation.



You have provided exactly ONE detail in this entire thread to work with: forged frostbearers deal unethically high damage. That's it. Nothing else you claim to have said....has been said. Your OP made absurd generalizations and when "civil discourse" happened after that, you disregarded all responses and offered nothing in return.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I provided a number of informative bits and through civil discourse would be happy to expand but they were not digested, this is not my problem to fix.

When? When did you provide ANY information to go on besides pivoting and literally nothing but dismissing what others have said?

You've provided exactly NO details to go on in all of your responses. The first time you actually mentioned any "details" a few posts ago....you severely walked back what you said in every previous response.

So where is this "civil discourse" we are supposed to be having? Because when one side offers nothing to the table, you can't have a conversation.

Well if some users would stop violating the forum rules and getting posts deleted we'd have a more complete conversation wouldn't we?

Try replying to the OP without all of this other made up stuff shoved in there like how the whole thread is about spectres.

That's the whole linchpin of your first reply and its completely fictitious, What would it make me to even seriously consider replying to that?

Yea I even said what the forest tiger did back on page 4 so, either the OP thinks it doesnt do what I said it does, which would be hilarious, or they kind of just want to create discourse for some reason.

There was another pure spectres, the ones that were added in crucible that also made a comeback this league, they come ... from the verisium ores actually see if I can remember what they were called. But they do an insane melee attack, leaving fire in like a fork on the ground, doesnt have a flee mechanic but also not the best mechanically.

Maybe Silent knows what these are called? Before I remember after I look them up?

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Yea I even said what the forest tiger did back on page 4 so, either the OP thinks it doesnt do what I said it does, which would be hilarious, or they kind of just want to create discourse for some reason.

There was another pure spectres, the ones that were added in crucible that also made a comeback this league, they come ... from the verisium ores actually see if I can remember what they were called. But they do an insane melee attack, leaving fire in like a fork on the ground, doesnt have a flee mechanic but also not the best mechanically.

Maybe Silent knows what these are called? Before I remember after I look them up?

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Aka the affliction ones that were brought back this league. And the haste tiger I think last I looked was 10 divs.

They give Grace not haste.

I don't recall which monster is specifically using that skill, I could tell you what most monters use if you give me the monster name but i will definitely not have every skill memorized in reverse.

Cant say im surprised in the slightest at the above post.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Yea I even said what the forest tiger did back on page 4 so, either the OP thinks it doesnt do what I said it does, which would be hilarious, or they kind of just want to create discourse for some reason.

There was another pure spectres, the ones that were added in crucible that also made a comeback this league, they come ... from the verisium ores actually see if I can remember what they were called. But they do an insane melee attack, leaving fire in like a fork on the ground, doesnt have a flee mechanic but also not the best mechanically.

Maybe Silent knows what these are called? Before I remember after I look them up?

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Aka the affliction ones that were brought back this league. And the haste tiger I think last I looked was 10 divs.

They give Grace not haste.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Yea I even said what the forest tiger did back on page 4 so, either the OP thinks it doesnt do what I said it does, which would be hilarious, or they kind of just want to create discourse for some reason.

There was another pure spectres, the ones that were added in crucible that also made a comeback this league, they come ... from the verisium ores actually see if I can remember what they were called. But they do an insane melee attack, leaving fire in like a fork on the ground, doesnt have a flee mechanic but also not the best mechanically.

Maybe Silent knows what these are called? Before I remember after I look them up?

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Aka the affliction ones that were brought back this league. And the haste tiger I think last I looked was 10 divs.

They give Grace not haste.

Ok all you've proven is that they changed it, It previously gave Grace, It was definitely changed this patch and i admittedly did not re-check the monster because its terrible, probably why it has haste now though i did check a lot of them this league not all received changes.

Anything constructive to add other than that? Because this is way off the rails having spent almost 3 pages on this.