Buff difficulty of regular content

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Nomancs wrote:

I actually did, for free on game pass, and they indeed don’t have extra mechanics, or skills, but difficulty level of mobs, bosses - PoE is getting closer. At current rate level 100 could be achieved solo by majority of league players within days of league start, if nothing will be improved.

Monster difficulty (and lack thereof) does not a casual game make. Having the game boil down to you needing to 1shot entire screens or get 1shot yourself doesn't suddenly make Path of Exile the most hardcore video game in the ARPG hack and slash market. There is so much more involved in that, and you reducing it to how fast something kills you isn't doing the game or yourself any favors.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

I actually did, for free on game pass, and they indeed don’t have extra mechanics, or skills, but difficulty level of mobs, bosses - PoE is getting closer. At current rate level 100 could be achieved solo by majority of league players within days of league start, if nothing will be improved.

Monster difficulty (and lack thereof) does not a casual game make. Having the game boil down to you needing to 1shot entire screens or get 1shot yourself doesn't suddenly make Path of Exile the most hardcore video game in the ARPG hack and slash market. There is so much more involved in that, and you reducing it to how fast something kills you isn't doing the game or yourself any favors.

It does tho. And we’re not about oneshots (except diablo4 have plenty of them in greater rifts 2.0), it is about ramping up difficulty of monsters so people after easy campaign don’t instantly jump to red maps because white and yellow tiers feels like nothing. And then, they can’t manage t17 or juiced content, because they were expecting same difficulty they experienced in earlier content.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

I actually did, for free on game pass, and they indeed don’t have extra mechanics, or skills, but difficulty level of mobs, bosses - PoE is getting closer. At current rate level 100 could be achieved solo by majority of league players within days of league start, if nothing will be improved.

Monster difficulty (and lack thereof) does not a casual game make. Having the game boil down to you needing to 1shot entire screens or get 1shot yourself doesn't suddenly make Path of Exile the most hardcore video game in the ARPG hack and slash market. There is so much more involved in that, and you reducing it to how fast something kills you isn't doing the game or yourself any favors.

It does tho. And we’re not about oneshots (except diablo4 have plenty of them in greater rifts 2.0), it is about ramping up difficulty of monsters so people after easy campaign don’t instantly jump to red maps because white and yellow tiers feels like nothing. And then, they can’t manage t17 or juiced content, because they were expecting same difficulty they experienced in earlier content.

What people are jumping straight to red maps instantly, or are you just referring to yourself and your friends who know how to chump the system and make mad amounts of currency?

I've got 11k hours in this game and it takes me well over a week or two before I reach T16 maps. And that's being generous.

GGG staff have even said when grilled about the massive loss of players in Expedition league during an interview that the vast majority of players quit playing after beating act 10. That should say something.

A handful of rich players doesn't, and shouldn't, define the game's difficulty for everyone else.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

What people are jumping straight to red maps instantly, or are you just referring to yourself and your friends who know how to chump the system and make mad amounts of currency?

I've got 11k hours in this game and it takes me well over a week or two before I reach T16 maps. And that's being generous.

A handful of rich players doesn't, and shouldn't, define the game's difficulty for everyone else.

For the statistics we could use poe.ninja with level reached after a week but that will not give accurate resoults. And yes, I base it on my colleagues and friends, both ingame and real life. Even the casual one just buy red maps (he start few days after league start), and just ignore white/yellows, play for a week and quit, claiming he beat pinnacle bosses so he is done.

Anyway, when you do maps, it takes you time mostly because you need maps or mostly because you open a map tier higher and can’t finish it?

Edit: about people quiting after finishing story, it is a proof that making acts harder, like a1 and 2 did not make them quit, they just beat the campaign - it doesn’t have to be related with white meps difficulty.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

What people are jumping straight to red maps instantly, or are you just referring to yourself and your friends who know how to chump the system and make mad amounts of currency?

I've got 11k hours in this game and it takes me well over a week or two before I reach T16 maps. And that's being generous.

A handful of rich players doesn't, and shouldn't, define the game's difficulty for everyone else.

For the statistics we could use poe.ninja with level reached after a week but that will not give accurate resoults. And yes, I base it on my colleagues and friends, both ingame and real life. Even the casual one just buy red maps (he start few days after league start), and just ignore white/yellows, play for a week and quit, claiming he beat pinnacle bosses so he is done.

Anywa, when you do maps, it takes you time mostly because you need maps or mostly because you open a map tier higher and can’t finish it?

Poe.ninja is not an accurate depiction as it draws from a limited number of characters that are the most successful. Compared to the rest of the playerbase, it is once again a handful of (typically rich) players.

My issue with atlas progression is a matter of neither. If I need maps, I do Kirac dailies to refresh his list to get ones I haven't completed yet. Failing that, I farm maps a tier below to get incomplete ones linked to them. I've also not failed running maps a tier higher. Most of the time I'm usually stronger than the higher tier maps, because I'm grinding lower tiers trying to get them to drop.

(I don't trade maps as a matter of principle. Core game progression shouldn't be gated behind trade. If GGG kills map sustain like they did before Metamorph league, I'm quitting PoE.)

No, my issue with why it takes so long to reach T16 is a combination of both the builds I run coupled with the rarity of incomplete maps dropping. I've been playing poison SRS since ToTA, and summoners in general have never been a map-blitzing playstyle since GGG nerfed Redemption Sentries and "fixed" Syndicate Operatives.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

Poe.ninja is not an accurate depiction as it draws from a limited number of characters that are the most successful. Compared to the rest of the playerbase, it is once again a handful of (typically rich) players.

We could compare this limited number from poe.ninja to steamchart for PoE for total players on league start, but I agree, it is far from full picture.
I'm also curious, what you consider by "typically rich" as we all start with same amount of ID scrolls?

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Pizzarugi wrote:

My issue with atlas progression is a matter of neither.

That doesn't sound like monster difficulty issue then. League by league campaign, and early/mid maps are getting easier and easier, influences, tattoos, omens, new uniques... It piles up.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

Poe.ninja is not an accurate depiction as it draws from a limited number of characters that are the most successful. Compared to the rest of the playerbase, it is once again a handful of (typically rich) players.

I'm also curious, what you consider by "typically rich" as we all start with same amount of ID scrolls?

The fact you can afford to make a build so strong that you can instantly jump to red maps after beating act 10, or at least claim people can, suggests you can make a ton of currency in an incredibly short time span faster than most people can achieve.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

My issue with atlas progression is a matter of neither.

That doesn't sound like monster difficulty issue then. League by league campaign, and early/mid maps are getting easier and easier, influences, tattoos, omens, new uniques... It piles up.

The things you listed should be optional boosts to power. Your desire to make the game harder will then make them mandatory rather than optional, further driving up the cost of just about every build. Players who can't produce the amount of currency to afford those builds will suffer, just like they always have whenever GGG buffs mobs in the game rather than just nerfing the top % of builds and enforcing a design philosophy to make sure nothing gets stronger past a certain point.

There was a time in PoE's past when ascension subclasses were optional if you were willing to put up with the labyrinth, now they're essential in all builds due to the game being made harder. People on the forum haven't shut up about lab since.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

The fact you can afford to make a build so strong that you can instantly jump to red maps after beating act 10, or at least claim people can, suggests you can make a ton of currency in an incredibly short time span faster than most people can achieve.

Nonmeta builds can be dirt cheap, and even meta builds non legendary items can be crafted easily (at least gear version that allow you to farm t16 if you know how and what to make and from what you will benefit most, but this is a different topic.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

The things you listed should be optional boosts to power. Your desire to make the game harder will then make them mandatory rather than optional, further driving up the cost of just about every build. Players who can't produce the amount of currency to afford those builds will suffer, just like they always have whenever GGG buffs mobs in the game rather than just nerfing the top % of builds and enforcing a design philosophy to make sure nothing gets stronger past a certain point.

This will not happen, as most players don't trade for anything before hitting maps, and getting gear to run white/yellow maps that is like getting rares from the ground. We're not talking t16 here, or pinnacle bosses.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

There was a time in PoE's past when ascension subclasses were optional if you were willing to put up with the labyrinth, now they're essential in all builds due to the game being made harder. People on the forum haven't shut up about lab since.

Like anything on this forum, there are people who will jump on anyone who say bad things about d4 in some topics :P

i think the biggest difficulty for new players isn't the monsters, it's the handling of loot.

of course it's essential to know which monsters it's worth to engage with and to properly interprete the warning signs the game gives to you before your char dies but it takes alot of time and experience to learn what to pickup and to ignore 99% of the stuff the game throws at you.

the internet, especially the ai training grounds of reddit, are full of newbie posts about potential wrist problems and the need for currency to drop in stacks cause beginners didn't know how to properly play poe.

dropping less junk would make the game easier. but that's not happening i guess cause it's one of the biggest challenges.

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vio wrote:

i think the biggest difficulty for new players isn't the monsters, it's the handling of loot.

of course it's essential to know which monsters it's worth to engage with and to properly interprete the warning signs the game gives to you before your char dies but it takes alot of time and experience to learn what to pickup and to ignore 99% of the stuff the game throws at you.

the internet, especially the ai training grounds of reddit, are full of newbie posts about potential wrist problems and the need for currency to drop in stacks cause beginners didn't know how to properly play poe.

dropping less junk would make the game easier. but that's not happening i guess cause it's one of the biggest challenges.

I remember, when I first played PoE, I was also collecting everything, I soon learned to control this bad habit I got from other games.