⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 150M+
" Hi Chromino, * re- Minion dps, yeah I am not that familiar. However, 20% offering effect sounds good (I would take gravepact as it is now along the pathing if indeed the placing othe nightmare jewel has to change). Een unholy might sounds interesting. * For mana reservation, I was thinking of using masteries to make it work. I'll need to test whether using clusters is more or less efficient than masteries (the discipline mastery costs only one point. The determination one cost 4. Small jewels cost 2 + pathing) Another option is Presage for 3 points as it lookson our current pathing. I didn't count the enchantment because I believe (possibly incorrectly) that it will not be cheap nor available in big quantities on the right helmet. * PoB seems to be confirming that we need to change the spot of the Nightmare jewel: it no longer reaches the Sanctuary wheel (unless radius increases a lot). We have to put it beneath the templar area and PoB confirms it's 10% (unless there is a better spot I didn't check) * Spell block is much easier, there are so many nodes along the way, and quite efficient. Block is more problematic. * For block I am thinking: Aegis 32 + Sanctuary 6 + Mastery 6 + Red Dream 10 then the rest in clusters (it is way too expensive to travel for tree block) with a mix of Riot Queller, Prodigious Defence, Enduring Ward, Vicious Guard, One wit shield. I expect Megalomaniacs to be cheaper this league due to lvl 30 simulacrum increasing supply. * For spell block, I am thinking: Tempest Shield 25, Sanctuary 6, Mystic Bulwark 8, Safeguard 18, Arcane Guarding 16, Rainbowstride 6. Thast give 79, so you can take +2% max spellblock mastery (about 10% more eHP against spells) or remove rainbowstrides and stay at 73. A good option you mentioned is replica pure talent but I guess expensive? Some other thoughts: * Corruption + +1 chaos mastery seems to be giving 20% (or 30% if lvl 31 is reached). PoB seems to believe that it improves the wither from the spiders too. * Armour and Energy shield Mastery (per example the Sanctum of Thought node) looks quite good with 20% of armour increases applying to energy shield (looks like an easy 40% to ES). There is also the 20% curse reduction we need (it's annoying having to use a point for it now..) or if we change helmet 1 armour per energy shield on helmet (up to 250 base armour on Vault) * I wonder ether Healthy mind is still a good choice: the witch life/mana nodes are now out of range, and mana no longer give us armour, and the amount of ES per node looks average. Will dpeend on pathing I guess. By the way, I have a very important question: do we know how much is the reservation efficiency of the circles of Nostalgia? Do they stay the same?Do they cap at 40% instead of 20%? Can't see in the patch notes. | |
" Hi mc, I am checking dev-pob just at the moment. The tree is a bit nerfed (2 passives more needed pathing), I check it in the pob-developer mode at the moment. Most big buffs are like written before: armour- and evasion -formulas, grace and determination, +2 gemlevels Skin of the Lords with a lot damage, awakened gems, awakened fork and masteries of course beside regretting glancing blows, upgrading from 35% to 100% damagereduction of full blockings. Looks like we need 92 passives classic pathing (instead 90 in 3.15), 30 passives clusters (2 large, 4 medium, 2 small), 2 points still free to choose for masteries, runebinder, clusterskills or something else... We path the shield-mastery, armour- and es-mastery, block-mastery, energy-shield-mastery, reservation mastery. To path the armour-mastery we can vary the tree easy and take the shortcut just at the templar start for 4-5 free passives or regret 2 points holy dominion, because blue or red nightmare are not fitting well, we switch them to shieldmastery or path armourmastery instead. Block/ Spellblock I still have to check, but it seems like the blue and red nightmare are kicked out. Healthy mind looses also some important radius and will probably be kicked out too. We can replace with replica pure talent or flexible sentry, but max block needs a bit more investment like a watcher's eye mod or 4 points arcane guarding on the way (without glancing blows). Last edited by Chromino on Oct 18, 2021, 9:18:13 PM
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" I played in .13 and .14, and it was really nice. The first time it was my second character (maybe a week or two into the league) so easy leveling with items available. The second one was levelled from the beginning and it was a very bland experience until you get Aegis and Arakaali. I have not fully looked into HoAg yet, but I think HoP can go much higher in dps (I forgot whether I could reach 15m dps). The main issue was that against some bosses they would die quickly and I would have to rampup summoning them only to see them die again (especially in the big Maven events). Hence why I am thinking that I want an army of immortal soldiers this time :p | |
" Hi Zepepsico, I played and tried both Heralds and try to compare at page 50 in the spoiler "- HoA vs HoP -Stats and styles of different Heralds- and Managuardianbuilds". I guess HoA is much faster mapping, HoP is a equal singletarget against Shaper or Maven. With the same defences like HoP this build reached easy 12M in 3.15, much more as HoP when I remember correct. Both Heralds are a lot fun and very interesting, the styles are interesting and easy to compare!
Spoiler
3.12 1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar). 2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better 3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks. 4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement. 5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce. (For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.) HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build. 6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline. And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. : The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken: For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types. 7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms: -the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous. When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too. - you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks. When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance. 8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs. Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr. And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack. 9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns. 10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc. Overall Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp. You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to. Last edited by Chromino on Oct 18, 2021, 5:12:56 PM
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" Patchnotes 3.16 "Sentinels of Purity summoned with Herald of Purity now have 40% less Life. Because of base Ignite damage changes, Ignite with the skill is now 50.0% higher when using the Death Wish skill from the Maw of Mischief Unique Helmet." Pretty sure you would have an even harder time with them now :( |
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 The new tree: pob-fork developer-mod. 90 points pathing 2 points regretted holy dominion (without blue/ red nightmare not worth it) serpentine spellslinger needs a point less 2 points masteries, shield and energyshield activated. 30 points clusters needed 1 point free or we the take shortcut in start of templar area for amour-mastery instead or we can try to regret 1-5 points anointed flesh also for different paths or one more jewel slot:  Last edited by Chromino on Oct 18, 2021, 5:11:39 PM
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" How do you suppose to achieve max block without Glancing Blows? Meh, Elemental Equilibrium in the bottom part of the tree actually huge nerf. (-12% dps) Without the blue Nightmare its really hard to cap spell block Last edited by DreadMoore on Oct 18, 2021, 6:45:37 PM
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" Hi Dreadmoore, full block, no glancing blows, will work like that:  A lot passives like charisma, safeguard, arcane sanctuary are bugged in the pob-developer test in the moment, I corrected and count: buffed 87k armour, 7.5 k es, only 3.6 k mana, pob says much too much unreserved mana (613, when that is true change mastery or passives or small cluster of course), no healthy mind, no nightmare 1 large cluster conjured wall & magehunter to reach 74% spellblock, with belt-jewel overcapped 76% lol ;-) 60% block, anoint amulet brutal blade or testudo for 66% (or deflection for 65% with some endurance charges), take determination attackblock-mod on watcher's eye for full total 74% attackblock (or clusterpassive or different amulet like anvil etc.) without glancing blows. replica pure talent used, bastion of hope, shield mastery for attackblock with shield Still without tempest shield!! Switch in tempest shield for 5-7 free passives! Take for example with tempest shield increased max block of mastery or armour mastery and regret raze and pillage when you need one jewel slot more next to armour mastery. It's also probably possible to change in new buffed Purity of elements for permament ailments-immunities (or 50% evasion without iron reflexes)! We loose anointed flesh, but get instead arcane sanctuary for ailment avoidances and 100% damagereductions of blockings. yes, ee is a nerf for the offensive edition "make hatred, not grace". You can craft exposure on triggerwand, then the nerf is only about 6%. But with the big buff of Skin of the lords and awakened gems, total +3-4 gemlevels the build is buffed about 50% and more HoA- damage, when you go for full attack even much more. Edited Pathing at top of witch-area will perhaps free 1 passive, I optimize more tomorrow Last edited by Chromino on Oct 18, 2021, 9:59:17 PM
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I had a whole written out thing about mana reservation in this build, but I accidentally deleted the -20 from Memory Vault right when I started doing my spreadsheet math. Oops. In any case...
Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you can mix and match reservation efficiency really well without having to anoint Charisma, but you'll need at least one Circle of Nostalgia and one small reservation cluster jewel (probably Discipline), in addition to some other kinds of reservation Efficiency: A second Circle of Nostalgia or Presage cluster And A Determination Efficiency from Armour Mastery or a second Determination Cluster If you don't have Memory Vault yet, you don't need very much Efficiency at all to run all the auras, which makes this build that much more affordable as you league start. To give an idea, here are some Efficiency Configurations and the resulting Reservation Efficiency you need on the tree (add 20% if you use Memory Vault): -Circle of Nostalgia x2 = 80% Efficiency on Herald -Determination Mastery = 25% efficiency Resulting Efficiency needed on tree: 36% -Circle of Nostalgia x1 + Intuitive Leap Presage Cluster = 80% Efficiency on Herald -Determination Cluster Jewel = 50% Efficiency Resulting Efficiency needed on tree: 28% -Circle of Nostalgia x1 = 40% Efficiency on Herald -Determination Cluster = 50% Efficiency -Discipline Cluster = 80% Efficiency Resulting Efficiency needed on tree: 28% Last edited by JoeBroski on Oct 18, 2021, 8:38:20 PM
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" Hi fanatic, page 1 frontpage shows the new tree for full block Eedition without glancing blows. It's still not full optimized, perhaps 2 more passives we can squeeze out oathing in top of witch-area. Glancing blow trees will follow soon. |
