(3.2) [Lighty] 2H RT Cyclone: Dope for Beast League & Lab™

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Kliops144 wrote:

Returning to CWDT theme about loosing en-ch. So, if using IC for juggernaut is not really good, what can replace it?

Well, I've explained previously why IC isn't good on Juggernaut, with regards to losing valuable charges and elemental damage reduction (our only real weakness). You don't worry about physical damage as a Juggernaut.

What can replace it? Not necessarily anything, you don't NEED to run CWDT something, something. But if you do want to, I would suggest Molten Shell, as it gives flat armour, which scales well with our passives, and maybe a curse. Enfeeble or Temporal Chains perhaps. Link them both to CWDT and Increased Duration in a 4L.

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Uh... I believe he meant his previous build (whatever class that may have been) that he followed, wasn't solid.

Exactly. My previous build (Neversink's Tornado Shot Raider) feels rushed, there are a lot of inconsistencies and people who followed it are really having a hard time with maps.
Also, small upgrades at levels over 70 are really expensive.

I'm new to the game (only played a 65 Firestorm the previous week to 3.0 and now I have a 74 Tornado Shot Raider) and I'm really thinking about creating a new charger following another build. I want a build which is well written, well explained, is very high end viable and not very expensive.

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

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jeffarese wrote:

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Uh... I believe he meant his previous build (whatever class that may have been) that he followed, wasn't solid.

Exactly. My previous build (Neversink's Tornado Shot Raider) feels rushed, there are a lot of inconsistencies and people who followed it are really having a hard time with maps.
Also, small upgrades at levels over 70 are really expensive.

I'm new to the game (only played a 65 Firestorm the previous week to 3.0 and now I have a 74 Tornado Shot Raider) and I'm really thinking about creating a new charger following another build. I want a build which is well written, well explained, is very high end viable and not very expensive.

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

NeverSink makes really good builds. That build specifically has been around since the dawn of time itself. It's just a rush to get guides completely solid at launch of major expansions like 3.0, because not all info is available and not all info that is available is definitive. It's like walking on a frozen lake. ;)

Having played Cyclone for many leagues in a row now, I can tell you for sure that this build, for all its current flaws, is essentially solid.

If you want to play it safe, go Juggernaut and don't spec into any build defining things like specific weapon passives or Blood Magic or something, until you're figured out what you want to do with it. The baseline of the build is essentially the same for each class, most things are exactly identical, apart from a few specific key nodes and of course, the start of the tree.

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Archimtiros wrote:

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Shiiro95 wrote:

It was said in here, bosses today have -60% curse effects. Vuln lv 12 of a glove, IMO, don't worth because you already clean trash mobs realy fast.

But if you REALY need to apply Vuln, I'd suggest Witchfire brew flask, helped me a lot before.

Current setup:

BTW a Veruso's with Vuln on hit is worthing less than 30C today.

I'm doing a Berserker Starforge build, actually with 400KDPS (without vuln) + 7K life. I'll test some new mechanics and after finish I'll post here what I've done.

Withfire Brew isn't as nice as you'd think. It's slightly stronger than Vuln on gloves, but you're trading effect for uptime, of which Brew has very little. Frankly, if the boss fight is short enough for Witchfire Brew to cover it, then it's short enough you probably don't need the flask to begin with.

It comes down to opportunity cost - Witchfire Brew has one (takes a flask slot), while corruption on glove does not. If you're still looking for more damage from flasks, you're far better off with Lion's Roar for boss damage.

That's not why I said. Fist I said vuln on bosses will not have much value because of the reductions. And IMO, if he realy needs this boost (not only for bosses), it's better do it on a witchfire because It's lv21 and is very cheaper. But again, I don't think it worths. Like you said, for damage boost on bosses is better get a Lion's Roar (that is just what I got for me).

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jeffarese wrote:

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

do the slayer cyclone. good damage good suvivability.

if you wanna lasy build - do the golemancer, it kill everithing. and killed by everithing :)

warchief totem (warchief/berserker) - simple to.

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Shiiro95 wrote:

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Archimtiros wrote:

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Shiiro95 wrote:

It was said in here, bosses today have -60% curse effects. Vuln lv 12 of a glove, IMO, don't worth because you already clean trash mobs realy fast.

But if you REALY need to apply Vuln, I'd suggest Witchfire brew flask, helped me a lot before.

Current setup:

BTW a Veruso's with Vuln on hit is worthing less than 30C today.

I'm doing a Berserker Starforge build, actually with 400KDPS (without vuln) + 7K life. I'll test some new mechanics and after finish I'll post here what I've done.

Withfire Brew isn't as nice as you'd think. It's slightly stronger than Vuln on gloves, but you're trading effect for uptime, of which Brew has very little. Frankly, if the boss fight is short enough for Witchfire Brew to cover it, then it's short enough you probably don't need the flask to begin with.

It comes down to opportunity cost - Witchfire Brew has one (takes a flask slot), while corruption on glove does not. If you're still looking for more damage from flasks, you're far better off with Lion's Roar for boss damage.

That's not why I said. Fist I said vuln on bosses will not have much value because of the reductions. And IMO, if he realy needs this boost (not only for bosses), it's better do it on a witchfire because It's lv21 and is very cheaper. But again, I don't think it worths. Like you said, for damage boost on bosses is better get a Lion's Roar (that is just what I got for me).

Yeah, I'm not a fan of flasks in general. I will never make a build that relies on flasks, for damage or otherwise. A build is only good to me if it can stand on its own, gear, passives, skills+links.

Flasks are way too micromanagey. That's a word now.

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Link them both to CWDT and Increased Duration in a 4L.

Hmm. Will try Enfeeble, ty!

upd/ damn 1 lvl 58 int)

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6aPMaJIeuKuH wrote:

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jeffarese wrote:

I just wanted the opinion on this from players who have tried it :)

do the slayer cyclone. good damage good suvivability.

if you wanna lasy build - do the golemancer, it kill everithing. and killed by everithing :)

warchief totem (warchief/berserker) - simple to.

Hmm, I think Juggernaut is a safer bet for a new player. Slayer is good all-round, true, but it still has a larger defensive gap than Juggernaut will ever have. Leech will only protect you so much. If you can't survive that one shot, it's useless, no matter how much you can leech. Berserker has the same problem, but to an even larger degree.

For a new player imo, it's better to teach them the lesson that on PoE, damage is secondary. You survive first, then worry about killing. Yes, even on softcore. 10% exp loss at 90+ is painful. Both time and currency wise. Those maps are expensive. There is no better offence than a properly set up defence. Juggernaut will do this for you, and then you can go wild offensively with gear later on.

But every class can do this, you might say? Yes. But to get to that point on a berserker takes way more gear to achieve and that is probably why NeverSink's build didn't seem solid to him in the first place. Melee is the most gear dependant, let's not make it worse for him. Juggernaut. ;)

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Xavathos wrote:

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Kliops144 wrote:

Returning to CWDT theme about loosing en-ch. So, if using IC for juggernaut is not really good, what can replace it?

Well, I've explained previously why IC isn't good on Juggernaut, with regards to losing valuable charges and elemental damage reduction (our only real weakness). You don't worry about physical damage as a Juggernaut.

What can replace it? Not necessarily anything, you don't NEED to run CWDT something, something. But if you do want to, I would suggest Molten Shell, as it gives flat armour, which scales well with our passives, and maybe a curse. Enfeeble or Temporal Chains perhaps. Link them both to CWDT and Increased Duration in a 4L.

Exactly what I was going to suggest.

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Xavathos wrote:

Yeah, I'm not a fan of flasks in general. I will never make a build that relies on flasks, for damage or otherwise. A build is only good to me if it can stand on its own, gear, passives, skills+links.

Flasks are way too micromanagey. That's a word now.

You should'nt rely on flasks to damage. But you should rely on flasks to have great boosts on damage/utilities.