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well i have tested the new skill now on my ls build i made for the ambush/invasion league and honestly at least for a piety farmer its a good one.
dps shown - like all the conversion skill (aka. physical portion will get other element) is only the melee dps. for me that was on a 5l (including bloodmagic) 14k with not a single fire note on the tree not any fire dmg on gear at lv1 (hatred on, 300+ dps sword)
with gmp/lmp it adds a lot more projectiles and with conc. effect i killed piety in maybe 5-6 hits "shotgunning" with the projectiles. i wasnt even able to cull here cause she went down that fast.
my char is ofc not optimised for the skill but if you have a high phys dps sword and maybe add in added fire - melee phys - conc. effect. - lmp/gmp/fa - multistrike it could be a nice piety/domi farmer skill instead of the usual melee cyclone/reave/spec throw ones.
as an aoe i dont think it is worth it i would prefer reave/lightning strike over it because of the range - even with carcass + aoe notes on tree this might not give you enough aoe power at all. i might be wrong ... skill looks at least supernice and i might try to make a build for it.
not sure if i ever saw a burn effect on mobs from the balls striking them but i might be wrong with that assumption. ooh and the manacost seems affordable (think lv10 was like 10 mana without other multiplier) at lv12 it was 11??
im sure someone will make a nice build with it but it will be more of a niche one
ps: i have made 10+ other pietyruns with different gemsetups now and i somewhat think conc. effect doesnt work at all (or only on a small base) sometimes i shotgun with the projectiles - means very fast dead - and sometimes not. without bloodmagic and including weapon ele i got on a 5l 18k+ dps (single target i know) and manacost are even lower then i thought (lv12 cost only 9 mana) my best setup would be molten strike - multi - weapon ele - melee phys - fa - ll/lmp/gmp/lgoh depending on what your doing.
i try later in a lv74+ map once that gem hits lv15+ till now im a bit dissapointed now. (though it looks damn nice)
Melee Physical Damage would only boost the 40% not converted to fire, correct?
Melee Physical Damage applies before conversion, so it boosts the entire damage, not just the 40% not converted to fire. Do note that Melee Physical Damage does absolutely nothing for the projectiles (just like with lightning strike). Weapon Elemental Damage is the support gem which you want to use ;)
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Posted byCorodixon May 1, 2014, 12:49:22 PM
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I would like to point out that this skill works pretty well with a cast on crit setup. I'm doing a melee CoC, so I was using double strike + multistrike prior to this. Now I can run:
Molten Strike + CoC + Life Leech + Firestorm + Arc + Ice Nova (using a tabula)
It has some minor issues on single target cause sometimes the projectiles whiff, but it's a fantastic skill in every other scenario. You don't really need LMP or multistrike so you free up a slot for a third spell.
IGN: Sygil_Eiran // Cadence_Eiran // Ragnar_Eiran // Amy_Eiran // Vurion_Eiran
"If only it had rolled _____ "
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Posted byGil42on May 1, 2014, 1:31:51 PM
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I'm loving this skill so far. This is what I found so far.
- Chain and fork does not work, even though the tool tip says so.
- Faster and slower projectiles does not affect the projectiles in any way.
I tried point blank but could not tell if it made any difference. I am also not sure if point blank measure the time relatively to the max length of the projectile will be alive or if it is relative to some absolute value, such as one second.
- It works nice with concentrated and increased area of effect.
- It works well with more physical projectile damage.
- Lesser and greater multiple projectiles works like a charm.
All explosions from the projectiles can hit the same enemy, which makes this skill superb. The direction of the projectiles can not be controlled.
how did you tested that chain/fork not works?
its possible, that
you attack,
you create molten
the molten, travels 1sec, before it lands
the chain+fork, not makes the molten fly up in air again,
no it simply chains/forks within a 0.01sec? so you not see it?
if I link chain to molten
it somehow feels that I hit 2times more monsters per strike, then when I not link chain
you can not see this, you can only see this bye the fire effect on the monsters
it happens to fast to see what happens
to all the damage discussions?
what does damage matters, if you not know how the skill mechanics make overlaying hits
only then you know what onscreen dps means in effective dps
e/ just did a test vs a es-monster
same monster, same stats, same attack, same everything
I not kill monster, I let it regen es, for multiple test on same monster
I attacked it with molten gmp
1 sec later, I add chain+fork
my killspeed and my onscreen dps, somehow showed a decrease in killspeed vs 1target
exaxly how I wondered it would be
vs multiple targets from chain alone, it feels it goes 50%faster
fork may not be that great, but chain, why would it not work?
Last edited by Tommyvv on May 1, 2014, 2:34:11 PM
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Posted byTommyvvon May 1, 2014, 1:54:12 PM
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well i have tested the new skill now on my ls build i made for the ambush/invasion league and honestly at least for a piety farmer its a good one.
dps shown - like all the conversion skill (aka. physical portion will get other element) is only the melee dps. for me that was on a 5l (including bloodmagic) 14k with not a single fire note on the tree not any fire dmg on gear at lv1 (hatred on, 300+ dps sword)
with gmp/lmp it adds a lot more projectiles and with conc. effect i killed piety in maybe 5-6 hits "shotgunning" with the projectiles. i wasnt even able to cull here cause she went down that fast.
my char is ofc not optimised for the skill but if you have a high phys dps sword and maybe add in added fire - melee phys - conc. effect. - lmp/gmp/fa - multistrike it could be a nice piety/domi farmer skill instead of the usual melee cyclone/reave/spec throw ones.
as an aoe i dont think it is worth it i would prefer reave/lightning strike over it because of the range - even with carcass + aoe notes on tree this might not give you enough aoe power at all. i might be wrong ... skill looks at least supernice and i might try to make a build for it.
not sure if i ever saw a burn effect on mobs from the balls striking them but i might be wrong with that assumption. ooh and the manacost seems affordable (think lv10 was like 10 mana without other multiplier) at lv12 it was 11??
im sure someone will make a nice build with it but it will be more of a niche one
ps: i have made 10+ other pietyruns with different gemsetups now and i somewhat think conc. effect doesnt work at all (or only on a small base) sometimes i shotgun with the projectiles - means very fast dead - and sometimes not. without bloodmagic and including weapon ele i got on a 5l 18k+ dps (single target i know) and manacost are even lower then i thought (lv12 cost only 9 mana) my best setup would be molten strike - multi - weapon ele - melee phys - fa - ll/lmp/gmp/lgoh depending on what your doing.
i try later in a lv74+ map once that gem hits lv15+ till now im a bit dissapointed now. (though it looks damn nice)
Melee Physical Damage would only boost the 40% not converted to fire, correct?
Melee Physical Damage applies before conversion, so it boosts the entire damage, not just the 40% not converted to fire. Do note that Melee Physical Damage does absolutely nothing for the projectiles (just like with lightning strike). Weapon Elemental Damage is the support gem which you want to use ;)
hehe yeah i included both (i used that skill for testing on a char based of res.tech.+light.stri. magicfinder i made for piety runs) cause i think this skill has a nice inbound meleesplash and i love having also a decent single target skill when i face a boss) if you want to go pure ele dmg (which i personally not prefer) you can indeed boost that the best with weapon ele. and other passives. but on this char i dont feel i need that and i wont respec just for testing. i have done now some maps and on the boss i prefer that skill over lighting strike btw. - i kill much faster now.
im sure soon there will be guys making a build just around that skill cause it simply looks amazing. from testing (just visual) i have the feeling that faster/slower projectiles changes the range a bit (i dont have higher level ones though) so i might be wrong. when i used gmp+multi+wed+molten+fa+melee phys i ended with 25k single target and most mobs were dead in a blink of a second. it feeled like i had 20+ projectiles in front of me (i have superhigh attackspeed here) -> like having a wall of fire. i think lgoh gave me more life back although life leech wasnt a problem either.
and since it deals really high dmg even at low level i might gonna try that in a race instead of the usual builds. its a nice addition and like gil mentioned i can see melee coc builds using it cause you simply hit like a madman if you have the speed+multi.
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Posted byirukandjion May 1, 2014, 1:55:06 PM
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It's slightly better than Infernal Blow in almost all areas because the bombs don't reflect, where as Infernal Blow outright kills you if you do enough damage.
Wait, the bombs don't reflect?! Then...if you focus on scaling the projectiles (like scaling them on Lightning Strike), maybe you can do really good DPS while being immune to reflect?
I'd like to quote myself here and ask again: does anyone know if the bombs reflect?
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Posted bymimiviruson May 1, 2014, 2:57:16 PM
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This skill is outright impossible to properly test because there is no combat log in-game.
I am running a block tank infernal blow build.
So far what i've found.
1.Projectiles are random.
2.aoe is tiny even with increased effect.
3.The damage of the projectiles seem to scale rather poorly (explains the 120% on main strike)
4.Worse aoe than Infernal Blow.
5.Superior to infernal blow on single target.
6.Concentrated effect seem to not reduce the spread,but rather the small aoe splash damage radius of the ball explosions,in any case the difference is tiny.
7.Melee splash works - so technically you can have 2 AOEs in one,the splash only applies to the single-target damage source,projectiles are not affected.
8.For some reason the Iron Grip passive even tho i am nearly full str build gave very,very tiny dps boost on tooltip.
9.Quality adds fire damage,since i am running with high phys dps weapon and still manage to pull respectable dps for a pure tank,i assume with proper elemental damage build and gear,this would outright blow Infernal....ehm....blow out of the water.
In short: It's a better single-target version of infernal blow,while being a worse aoe version of it.
For me personally it's better,i don't expect things to die in 3 seconds because i am tank,and dps is not my main focus,that being said however,i do find this far more fitting for me because technically you have 3 constant drains: Single target,AOE from projectiles,and AOE from melee splash - at least that's what it looks like.
P.S. it's far superior when it comes to ele reflects,i can actually vaal cyclone 100 mobs+ reflect,and still pull through,not sure if it's because the projectiles possibly are not reflected,or because of the number of possible life leech layers.
No rest for the wicked.
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Posted byDaienaon May 1, 2014, 3:29:02 PM
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well i have tested the new skill now on my ls build i made for the ambush/invasion league and honestly at least for a piety farmer its a good one.
dps shown - like all the conversion skill (aka. physical portion will get other element) is only the melee dps. for me that was on a 5l (including bloodmagic) 14k with not a single fire note on the tree not any fire dmg on gear at lv1 (hatred on, 300+ dps sword)
with gmp/lmp it adds a lot more projectiles and with conc. effect i killed piety in maybe 5-6 hits "shotgunning" with the projectiles. i wasnt even able to cull here cause she went down that fast.
my char is ofc not optimised for the skill but if you have a high phys dps sword and maybe add in added fire - melee phys - conc. effect. - lmp/gmp/fa - multistrike it could be a nice piety/domi farmer skill instead of the usual melee cyclone/reave/spec throw ones.
as an aoe i dont think it is worth it i would prefer reave/lightning strike over it because of the range - even with carcass + aoe notes on tree this might not give you enough aoe power at all. i might be wrong ... skill looks at least supernice and i might try to make a build for it.
not sure if i ever saw a burn effect on mobs from the balls striking them but i might be wrong with that assumption. ooh and the manacost seems affordable (think lv10 was like 10 mana without other multiplier) at lv12 it was 11??
im sure someone will make a nice build with it but it will be more of a niche one
ps: i have made 10+ other pietyruns with different gemsetups now and i somewhat think conc. effect doesnt work at all (or only on a small base) sometimes i shotgun with the projectiles - means very fast dead - and sometimes not. without bloodmagic and including weapon ele i got on a 5l 18k+ dps (single target i know) and manacost are even lower then i thought (lv12 cost only 9 mana) my best setup would be molten strike - multi - weapon ele - melee phys - fa - ll/lmp/gmp/lgoh depending on what your doing.
i try later in a lv74+ map once that gem hits lv15+ till now im a bit dissapointed now. (though it looks damn nice)
Melee Physical Damage would only boost the 40% not converted to fire, correct?
Melee Physical Damage applies before conversion, so it boosts the entire damage, not just the 40% not converted to fire. Do note that Melee Physical Damage does absolutely nothing for the projectiles (just like with lightning strike). Weapon Elemental Damage is the support gem which you want to use ;)
Are you talking about the support gem or passive nodes?
If the skill is based off "physical damage", I would assume taking passive nodes that boost it (physical damage) would indeed help all aspects of the skill, including projectiles.
If you are speaking of the support gem, and then yes it shouldn't help the projectiles.
But, now how do you know the gem is calculated first on the whole and not on the 40%? If that an assumption or fact?
Last edited by eshiro on May 1, 2014, 3:34:29 PM
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Posted byeshiroon May 1, 2014, 3:32:57 PM
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Damage conversion happens last I think, so Melee Physical Damage works on the damage before conversion is applied.
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Posted bymimiviruson May 1, 2014, 3:36:23 PM
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Damage conversion happens last I think, so Melee Physical Damage works on the damage before conversion is applied.
Not with the Gem it doesn't. There seems to be a lot of confusion in here about tooltip dps. The tooltip DPS on molten strike is straight up WRONG. The tooltip only shows the initial melee hits damage, it does NOT show the damage from projectiles. This is why Melee Phys Gem seems awesome, but isn't, and Iron Grip seems to do nothing.
Melee Physical Damage gem will ONLY increase the INITIAL HIT damage, exactly like with Lightning Strike. It DOES NOT increase the damage of the projectiles at all.
On the flip side, Iron Grip will NOT increase the initial hits damage, but it WILL increase all of the damage from the projectiles.
This makes it very tough to test, as the only way to test is by kill speed and we have no numbers.
IMO the best links so far:
Molten Strike + Multistrike + WED + LGoH + (Fire Pen/Conc Effect/Inc AOE)
IGN: Dmillz Last edited by Dmillz on May 1, 2014, 3:59:27 PM
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Posted byDmillzon May 1, 2014, 3:48:42 PM
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Damage conversion happens last I think, so Melee Physical Damage works on the damage before conversion is applied.
Not with the Gem it doesn't. There seems to be a lot of confusion in here about tooltip dps. The tooltip DPS on molten strike is straight up WRONG. The tooltip only shows the initial melee hits damage, it does NOT show the damage from projectiles. This is why Melee Phys Gem seems awesome, but isn't, and Iron Grip seems to do nothing.
Melee Physical Damage gem will ONLY increase the INITIAL HIT damage, exactly like with Lightning Strike. It DOES NOT increase the damage of the projectiles at all.
On the flip side, Iron Grip will NOT increase the initial hits damage, but it WILL increase all of the damage from the projectiles.
This makes it very tough to test, as the only way to test is by kill speed and we have no numbers.
I wasn't referring to the projectiles. I just answered his question about when MPD is applied in relation to damage conversion.
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Posted bymimiviruson May 1, 2014, 3:53:24 PM
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