Skip Acts function for the second and subsequent characters in the league

"

600lbpanther#3839 wrote:

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

It is all a slog. It was fine and dandy the first few times. After 10+ there is no desire to do it ever again. I dont care how good they want to make it, even the best movie ever gets boring when you rewatch it dozens of times. It is never the same experience. Act 1 is ok, 2 is crap until dreadnaught, all of 3 is crap, 4 is meh. They still have 2 more to go!

I get your firmly on the "Skip Campaign" side due to the reason of "I've done this 20 times" as highlighted by your "best movie ever gets boring when you rewatch it dozens of times" analogy.

What I don't understand (yet) is that the "I've done this 20 times" argument can can also be used for end game or to put it another way:

If the campaign is boring after 15 runs then the endgame MUST be boring after run 300.

However, you don't identify the end game as repetitive (and many others who like the skip option don't either).

My initial assumption is it isn't the content. It's that maps lets you choose your repetition and the campaign doesn't.

This goes back to the "Dynamic Systems" proposal or said in another fashion: Give the campaign the same agency and decision making ability as end game mapping does and the argument disappears.

Here is some rough math just to highlight the disparity in the argument and why NOT having a choice in the campaign (i.e. doing the same exact thing everytime) is the problem (not the concept of a campaign).

Campaign length: 20-40 hours per character (linear, unchanging).

Endgame length per league: 200-600+ hours (voluntary, however functionally identical loop repeated hundreds of times).

being repetitve, grindd something (or mechanic), etc. these are all difrent thigns. and yetr poe 2 doesnt have true endgame yet, we are still on EA. but campaign is for sure, boring after first time. it doesn serve to game. adding skip option doesnt hurt anything and its not same way 'grind;', its just meaningless annoying procedure. PS iam against anything free, like intsa lvl 65 or something. everybody igrnores what people say and with tunnel effect they stay in their darkness and yell others, not try to understand

The only real danger I see with campaign skip is that some players might not properly learn their class or skills while leveling.

But even that argument is weak in PoE2, because this is not really a "level up with skill A, then replace it with skill B, then replace it with skill C" type of game. You can use a level 1 requirement skill in endgame if your build is made around it. So the idea that the campaign is always teaching you the "proper" skill progression does not really hold up.

And honestly, why not let players learn the hard way?

If someone skips or uses a faster leveling method, reaches endgame, and then gets destroyed because they do not understand their character, that is on them. They chose that route. The game does not need to protect everyone from making bad decisions forever. Sometimes the best teacher is a rare monster deleting you in two seconds.

Right now it feels like some people are against the option mostly because they are jealous of the time investment. As if letting other players skip or speed up later characters somehow makes their own manual campaign runs worthless.

But the bigger picture is that this would make the game easier to experiment with. More people could actually test builds, classes, and ascendancies instead of only theorycrafting them in a planner and then deciding the campaign wall is not worth climbing again.

And yes, endgame is repetitive too. I do not think anyone serious denies that. Endgame could also use more variety, more ways to level, more ways to farm currency, and more alternatives than just "atlas map spam" or "temple spam".

The difference is that endgame repetition usually gives more choice. Campaign repetition gives the same route, same errands, same NPCs, same checkpoints, same everything.

That is why I really like this line:
"One side revolts. The other tolerates it."

I still support a campaign skip, an alternative leveling route, an XP boost, or some other account-bound system after completing the campaign once. It does not need to be free power. It just needs to stop making every new character feel like paying the same fun tax again.

So i did suggest something like


"Maybe as you progress things endgame, you also unluck new areas you can now explore in the campagine also?

That would make End-game progression = Added Campaigne Value.

And that could be a never-ending circle of things like:

"Completing a full Swamp biome in End-game will now unlock a extra area in Act 3 as a optional route to the end of Waterways. This swamp area is very dangerus and will challange even the most seasoned of veteran! But the reward is a big timecut on Act 3"


For example.


Things like this, play game, improve game, i personaly would love."




What if after you have done the campaigne/story. And as you play end-game, you do your endgame progressions, your unlucks on the passive atlas-tree also influences the storymode?

If anything the story for the seoncd time+ would include more content that you enjoy playing. It would not be a "Take the mario pipe to world 8" type of change but it would still be a compromise of enrichement for the stoy by doing eng-game stuff.

Currently alteast i see it as a good solution of:

First story run > Do endgame stuff > Unluck stuff in your atleast tree > Buff your endgame AND it buffs your story run with extra content.


Now when you start a second character you have gear right away in the stash since its the second character. Making the run overall go faster.

You also would get extra stuff to splatter now in the story on every zone. Due to the buffs from your Atlas tree that is influencing your campaigne.

So we are overgeard right away (since its the second character), we are destroying the game as is. And we now also get more enemys, and bigger packs in general so we gain a huge extra portion of exp all the time. (there would be a option to turn the campaign buffs from Atlas tree off for the once who wants -Vanilla-).


In this way, we have now turned the games story into a "Cow-level-esk" type of thing that keeps increasing in content / mobs as you yourself keeps completing all endgame things.


You now have more controll over the stoy-run via what endgame mehcanics/content you pick to have. You have more to kill so even if you dont enjoy the story you are atleast having more things to splatter over hte screen and level faster as you play.

Again, still have a option to opt in and out of if you want end-game to influense the story. Im sure there could be some fun story lore with "The sands of TIME!" to cover for how this is possible also.



Play game, improve game.

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arkanie#2558 wrote:

being repetitve, grindd something (or mechanic), etc. these are all difrent thigns. and yetr poe 2 doesnt have true endgame yet, we are still on EA. but campaign is for sure, boring after first time. it doesn serve to game. adding skip option doesnt hurt anything and its not same way 'grind;', its just meaningless annoying procedure. PS iam against anything free, like intsa lvl 65 or something. everybody igrnores what people say and with tunnel effect they stay in their darkness and yell others, not try to understand

I agree that we all have interesting ways to view the campaign and end game. This is one of those debates where both sides walk away feeling they are “Right”. It’s not so much logical as it is psychological: We all have valid points up to some degree. That “up to some degree” is where the disagreement comes from (such as “The campaign is fine for the first time or even if you like it .. but I don’t like it repeatedly” or “The campaign is part of the journey…suck it up butter cup.”).

However, unless everyone who is “skipping” goes to End Game at level 1 then giving them a free instant level 65 is going to be required for that option to work.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

And yes, endgame is repetitive too. I do not think anyone serious denies that. Endgame could also use more variety, more ways to level, more ways to farm currency, and more alternatives than just "atlas map spam" or "temple spam".

The difference is that endgame repetition usually gives more choice. Campaign repetition gives the same route, same errands, same NPCs, same checkpoints, same everything.

That is why I really like this line:
"One side revolts. The other tolerates it."

I still support a campaign skip, an alternative leveling route, an XP boost, or some other account-bound system after completing the campaign once. It does not need to be free power. It just needs to stop making every new character feel like paying the same fun tax again.

Great post. Can’t disagree with really any of it…(not sure how anyone can who is TRULY looking for a win-win solution). Bolded the part that is the fundamental part…the foundation…that we all need to agree on and then work for a solution from there.

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SwedishTavern#6176 wrote:

So i did suggest something like

"Maybe as you progress things endgame, you also unluck new areas you can now explore in the campagine also?

That would make End-game progression = Added Campaigne Value.

And that could be a never-ending circle of things like:

"Completing a full Swamp biome in End-game will now unlock an extra area in Act 3 as an optional route to the end of Waterways. This swamp area is very dangerus and will challange even the most seasoned of veteran! But the reward is a big timecut on Act 3"

Love where you are going on the idea of a circular loop (never-ending circle) where campaign and end game influence each other…that is one key element.

The campaign is isolated from the end game.

If the campaign is just a tutorial for the 1st time player.
If the campaign is static, unchanging, and has no real meaning other than being a tutorial.
If the campaign’s story is stale and nobody actually cares about it.
If the campaign is repetitive to the point of boredom (nothing changes).
If completing the campaign DOES NOT guarantee you have a true end game T16 capable character

THEN

Why not eliminate the campaign and add entry level maps (level 1 character) to the “End game” effectively adding a beginning?

Being a bit facetious because I love a campaign (again my “ideal” is: BG3 “lite” + POE2 combat, crafting, etc.)

Currently I”m thinking of a system where:

1) Campaign 1st run each league is MANDATORY.
2) 2nd campaign run is SOMETHING ELSE (alternative leveling idea such as the “Exile Hunt” idea i posted although admittedly half-cooked idea)
3) 3rd+ Time = skip to end game option.

Resets each league. To the player who spends couple hundred hour each league they won’t know a difference. Person who spends 500-1000+ just got some love. *I* don’t have time to create 3+ characters that are all in-endgame with hundreds of hours on each so this isn’t something that is interesting to me.

Anyway, Just spitballing right now…

hmmm no !

Attempt #1 - Putting together coherent plan based on this thread's feedback (extreme views such as "100% no skip" or "100% skip" discarded)

3 JOURNEY CAMPAIGN
Nobody skips the campaign. Everyone plays it first — every league, every season, no exceptions. Veterans earn the right to graduate from it after demonstrating mastery twice. That's not a skip. That's a reward system. And it resets every league so GGG never loses the engagement they need.

1. Standard Campaign - ALREADY IMPLEMENTED

2. Alternative Leveling - "The Exile's Hunt" Example Only

This is the area that needs the work.

Is it just a 2nd run of standard campaign? If not, what type of alternate game mode?

**The more I think about it, the people who sink enormous amounts of time wanting to play end game with different characters run more campaigns than casual players. This dedication to the game deserves it's own "level up" system.**

3. End Game - EASY TO IMPLEMENT

Yeah, I’m sure GGG has nothing better to do than build a bunch of different campaigns, now that the campaign is almost finished and the game hasn’t even been released xd

If you want to spend less time playing the campaign there is a solution:
become faster.

not gonna happend. but gl to those keyboard warriors for asking to delete main part of the game.

"

600lbpanther#3839 wrote:

Attempt #1 - Putting together coherent plan based on this thread's feedback (extreme views such as "100% no skip" or "100% skip" discarded)

3 JOURNEY CAMPAIGN
Nobody skips the campaign. Everyone plays it first — every league, every season, no exceptions. Veterans earn the right to graduate from it after demonstrating mastery twice. That's not a skip. That's a reward system. And it resets every league so GGG never loses the engagement they need.

1. Standard Campaign - ALREADY IMPLEMENTED

2. Alternative Leveling - "The Exile's Hunt" Example Only

This is the area that needs the work.

Is it just a 2nd run of standard campaign? If not, what type of alternate game mode?

**The more I think about it, the people who sink enormous amounts of time wanting to play end game with different characters run more campaigns than casual players. This dedication to the game deserves it's own "level up" system.**

3. End Game - EASY TO IMPLEMENT

Thank for your aproach man! Even I agree your solution or not, doesnt matter but the important point is that you understand what is going on and why we want 'skip' option. as you created the solution, its actually GGG's problem that they have to find the best solution. I am okay with your solution becosue its at least not the same cam'pain' over and over brocracy and thanks alot for you effort (ps: i loved your solution)

Only agreeable campaign skip would be after you get one character to level 100 and have unlocked entire Atlas tree.

Knowing GGG, if they would make it so you can skip the campaign, you would still be level 1, lmao.