[Feedback] Giga-Nerf Gem Levels on Gear in Patch 0.4.0

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

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rifraf-_-#9478 wrote:

I think there should be a balance between broken AF and watering down. Keep high rolls like +5 on uniques but also allow lower rolls on other items with the ability to roll more than once. For example, an item that used to roll +5, now it can roll +2 but twice. So it's both a lower max roll AND an additional layer of RNG on top. Wouldn't that be fairly balanced?

If you have +skills in the game then everyone will be hunting it no matter how many layers of RNG you use. No mods should be mandatory for every build imo.

Mandatory is a strong word. If +2 gem skill is truly considered mandatory -which I personally don't think it is- then it would mean itemization is in a pretty crappy state right now.

Can you honestly say a +2 gem skill is a mandatory mod?

The entire idea of adding levels to gems beyond max should be scrapped.

It caused lots of problems with skills in PoE 1 (historical imbalance between spells and everything else)....so why didn't they learn and instead multiplied the issue for PoE 2?

Why this even needs to be a stat in the first place makes no sense. They can't make interesting skill mechanics with this existing, because this will ALWAYS act as a multiplier on every aspect of a skill, AND every other mod that you can get to support the skill.


Have a max level, and then maybe a system of high risk that adds ONE level to the max (a la corruption)......and then get rid of any other source of +level anything. They should really do that for PoE 1 too although its likely far too late.

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rifraf-_-#9478 wrote:

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

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rifraf-_-#9478 wrote:

I think there should be a balance between broken AF and watering down. Keep high rolls like +5 on uniques but also allow lower rolls on other items with the ability to roll more than once. For example, an item that used to roll +5, now it can roll +2 but twice. So it's both a lower max roll AND an additional layer of RNG on top. Wouldn't that be fairly balanced?

If you have +skills in the game then everyone will be hunting it no matter how many layers of RNG you use. No mods should be mandatory for every build imo.

Mandatory is a strong word. If +2 gem skill is truly considered mandatory -which I personally don't think it is- then it would mean itemization is in a pretty crappy state right now.

Can you honestly say a +2 gem skill is a mandatory mod?

Even if you reduce it to +1 only everyone will be hunting for it.

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

Even if you reduce it to +1 only everyone will be hunting for it.

I suppose I see it from a different perspective. I don't see it strictly as a source of power, I genuinely feel it's an exciting mod. I think there should be a discussion where it's both exciting and balanced. If you want to straight up remove it no questions asked, then you should either provide some evidence of how much power specifically +2 to skill has compared to another T1 mod. Or, we can agree to disagree.

+1 for complete removal.

The power it provides just needs to be moved somewhere else with more significant tradeoffs.

I really do try not to post here anymore, and I’ll likely go back to not bothering after this, because it has become genuinely pointless.

It’s honestly depressing to watch these kinds of discussions get necro’d and pushed to the top over and over.

"+Skills" was one of the fundamental pillars that made Diablo II what it was. It wasn’t some minor statistical quirk, it was a core identity defining mechanic.

Now we’re seeing threads advocating for the removal of similar cornerstone modifiers in PoE2, and others calling for IIR to be erased entirely on gear, without any nuance in how it’s balanced or integrated into the broader system.

I understand that forum conversations are not design documents and that GGG will not implement every suggestion here. But the sheer persistence of a vocal subset that treats the dismantling of foundational ARPG mechanics as some kind of improvement should at least be concerning to anyone who still approaches game design with a rational lens.

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Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

"+Skills" was one of the fundamental pillars that made Diablo II what it was. It wasn’t some minor statistical quirk, it was a core identity defining mechanic.

wow if that isn't a GROSS oversimplification, i dont know what is lol....


First of all, +skills was exceedingly rare and only available on select items. Not as a random modifier for ALL items.

Second of all, most +skills were class-specific which severely limited their power. Even more, they were TAB specific on those classes which was even more restrictive. Further still, they were often singular skill related.

Third....it wasn't NEARLY as powerful in D2 as it is in PoE, purely because of how levels on gems matter for power gain. It was strong, but it wasn't the most desired mod in far more instances than as it pertains to PoE.


Meanwhile, the PoE version of this "carryover from D2" was to almost entirely ERASE all those grades of rarity and power in favor of a ubiquitous plus to EVERYTHING under the sun, available almost everywhere and in higher numbers. Combined with exponentially higher power growth on levels beyond max on most skills except melee.


It was ALREADY an incomparable situation of +skills in PoE 1 versus D2, and it has only gotten WORSE as the years went by and they added from +1, to +2, to +3, to +5, etc. It used to be just as rare in PoE, then corruptions came. Then DOUBLE corruptions. And then finally the rare modifiers were all multiplied too, along with additional stackable options being added.



And even with all of that.....ultimately your argument falls flat the second you try to suggest "It was in D2 and therefore shouldn't be touched" is the entire end-all for the argument lol.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

but it wasn't the most desired mod in far more instances than as it pertains to PoE.

It was in fact, the absolute most desired mod. To the point that SOJ was the basic currency in vanilla.

Anni and torches were by extremely far the most sought items. Most players would want a Mara Kaleidoscope. And for PVP you would absolutely want skill charms as many as you humanly could possess.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

And even with all of that.....ultimately your argument falls flat the second you try to suggest "It was in D2 and therefore shouldn't be touched" is the entire end-all for the argument lol.

This is exactly what I'm implying. Diablo 2 is the blueprint of how the best arpg in existence was made. So yes, when something was fundamental to the genre’s peak, the burden of proof is on the people who want to remove it, not the ones who want to keep it.

You are saying that my post is a gross oversimplification. I will throw the same ball at you, there are several people in here asking for the mod to be deleted without any nuance. Just like IIR on gear, you see a lot of people asking for the deletion of it on gear and not on reworking the implementation of it.

I don't expect much from this forum like I said. The number of post I see from people that are actively trying to ruin this game is always on the top and constantly getting bumped as if the people had a reminder on their phone to do so.

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Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

It was in fact, the absolute most desired mod. To the point that SOJ was the basic currency in vanilla.

How to show an incorrect analysis in one sentence. Prime example.

Done with this nonsense argument, that above says it all.

For someone claiming D2 did everything perfectly, you have a shockingly WRONG view on one of its most iconic items.

And a shockingly wrong view of this thread and, as you claim, other historical threads on this topic too.

Makes me truly wonder how much you ACTUALLY played (and understood) Diablo 2....especially pre-runeword D2. Hell, even post-runeword....because +skills has NEVER been "the absolute most desired mod". A few that were historically MORE desirable (in terms of singular mods): flat damage, crushing blow, IAS, mf, %damage, -resistances, damage reduction.
Even Sorceresses, who received the MOST power from +skills, would routinely SACRIFICE it in favor of reaching cast speed breakpoints. And sacrifice it on gear in favor of multi-rainbow facet magic items or 6sockets.


In case you weren't aware, the SOJ becoming the default "currency" of D2 had pretty much NOTHING to do with its +skills. It was because of duping, quest bugs, gambling, and then later on its ties to Annihilus.

It was a pretty impressive "creation" by the playerbase as a whole because there wasn't a central currency that could be used to quantify trades.

NOTHING to do with its +skills, especially considering that OTHER +skills rings existed too and didn't function the same lol.

We can also see this as it was almost instantly replaced in its role by runes (notably ist) when they were introduced.

Guys. Let's not result into the extremes here. Balance can be achieved by tweaking and iterating. If we were to straight up remove everything exciting in the game we would have Diablo 4 😂