Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

Stop doing challenging content and go back to what you can easily clear...

This is not good game design.

Saying "it's a choice" is avoiding the issue. It's the devs choice to add punishments on top of death. That's the choice we're talking about and think should be changed.

You keep advocating for dying in 1 out of 4 maps. Which by the way is absolutely insane in PoE. Your goal is to make failing 25% of maps the norm and hide behind "challenge".

You got the wrong genre! This is not Dark Souls. This is not Monster Hunter. Other than they have dodge rolls, PoE has nothing in common with those games. They are different types of games with different balance and focus on different things.

If you want a challenge in PoE do pinnacle bosses.

And yes it is a choice. You are free to treat PoE like a different game. But then complaining about the logical outcome is simply annoying.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

Stop doing challenging content and go back to what you can easily clear...

This is not good game design.

Saying "it's a choice" is avoiding the issue. It's the devs choice to add punishments on top of death. That's the choice we're talking about and think should be changed.

You keep advocating for dying in 1 out of 4 maps. Which by the way is absolutely insane in PoE. Your goal is to make failing 25% of maps the norm and hide behind "challenge".

You got the wrong genre! This is not Dark Souls. This is not Monster Hunter. Other than they have dodge rolls, PoE has nothing in common with those games. They are different types of games with different balance and focus on different things.

If you want a challenge in PoE do pinnacle bosses.

And yes it is a choice. You are free to treat PoE like a different game. But then complaining about the logical outcome is simply annoying.

I agree, that would be insane in Path of Exile.

Fortunately, we're talking about Path of Exile 2. Totally different game.

The game is clearly inspired by Souls-likes, and there is no reason this game should not have Souls-like difficulty. The only thing preventing that is the punishment mechanics.

Pinnacle bosses are great, except for the one death mechanic. They should require multiple deaths to figure out, and then more to slay.

You want an easy game where the challenge is overcoming the tedium and time commitment. A lot of us want a difficult game where the challenge is figuring out and defeating the content.

Path of Exile already exists for people who like the former.
This game needs to be different or there is no reason for it to exist.

I haven't bothered reading through all the back and forth squabbling in this thread that sounds like the OP stepped on quite a few toes...

Despite that - I see where the OP is coming from and despite me belonging more to the "get's to lvl 100 anyway" faction, I kind of agree with them.

XP loss as a mechanic works well if you can easily figure out what went wrong and adjust your gameplay. This is not the case with POE1/POE2. In most cases, there is little chance to know why exactly you died - you may have assumptions, or educated guesses - but knowing it is different. This just leads to frustration, because especially those not glued to any social media content creator will just get frustrated a lot - since they are prevented from character progression (leveling up) completely that way unless they simply stop doing any form of challenging content (which has the risk of dying - as intended).

There are even more issues with the exp loss, see PoE2 right now... have a look at the softcore ladder and try to find life-based melee Warriors (not totem/ranged builds) among the top 1000 in terms of xp.

Good Luck.

Despite people playing fun and viable builds, the random one-shot mechanics in PoE2 are so punishing, that higher levels are restricted to certain builds that dominate the ladder, since they circumvent most mechanics completely. And circumventing challenging mechanics as a mean of progression is definitely not the way challenges are supposed to be overcome.

The game already has enough punishment for death - XP loss does not have to be one of them, as that simply means most people are not engaging in any form of challenging content until they hit their next level up (or they give up in leveling completely, or switch to a fotm meta build to level) ... and imho this is a major flaw in an ARPG, where the goal is to overcome challenges by making your character as strong as you possibly can (level up to get more stats/passive skills, better gear) and learning the mechanics through trial and error as much as possible with as much of a variety of builds as players can imagine.


Side info for the doubters... I have more than 10d /played on my lvl 95 melee titan, 5.2k hp, 85/80/79/75 res, 75% block, unbuffed 21k armour, and I still get one-shot randomly by bosses and stacked on-death effects in close quarters, negating more than an hour of maps each time... the xp loss is the number one reason I skip any and all bosses when I intend to reach the next level, as otherwise it becomes a fool's errand, even if I have killed the same boss deathless a hundred times before. And that cannot be the intended way to approach challenging content.

P.s.: and please stop with the "souls-like" comparison ... having punishment on death, dodge roll and one-shot mechanics does not make a game "souls-like" at all ...

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

I agree, that would be insane in Path of Exile.

Fortunately, we're talking about Path of Exile 2. Totally different game.

It is a different game, not a different genre.

You want to transform a car into a chair. Whereas it is still a car, but maybe with a different paint job, different specifications and so on. Stop trying to argue as if it was a chair. It is not.

look its so simple if they wanna go on like this its gonna be like poe1
as in , month into a league game is life support , 90% of the time actually.

or they change things and bring more general gamers in.

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damir21#1543 wrote:

look its so simple if they wanna go on like this its gonna be like poe1
as in , month into a league game is life support , 90% of the time actually.

or they change things and bring more general gamers in.

agree, we have too many player punishment in this game, this will make players to leave as soon as they finish act 6.


map loss, exp loss, modifiers loss, waystones deficit.... this is bullshiet!!

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

Fortunately, we're talking about Path of Exile 2. Totally different game.

Is it?

How's that?

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

Fortunately, we're talking about Path of Exile 2. Totally different game.

Is it?

How's that?

There's a "2" at the end.

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Jagdkommando90#7200 wrote:

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damir21#1543 wrote:

look its so simple if they wanna go on like this its gonna be like poe1
as in , month into a league game is life support , 90% of the time actually.

or they change things and bring more general gamers in.

agree, we have too many player punishment in this game, this will make players to leave as soon as they finish act 6.


map loss, exp loss, modifiers loss, waystones deficit.... this is bullshiet!!

Add that you can get stuck by an invisible obstacles, and then get ganked in no time.
Just happened to me twice in an hour. I have enough atm.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

I agree, that would be insane in Path of Exile.

Fortunately, we're talking about Path of Exile 2. Totally different game.

It is a different game, not a different genre.

PoE 2 is a different genre - or at least a hybrid of one.

They've leaned into playing like a twin stick shooter with WASD.

They are leaning into the Souls-like mechanics with dodge rolls, shield blocks, and other movement skills.

There's nothing insane about wanting a game that challenges you every step of the way and makes you EARN your progress.