GGG - Stand true to what you said about player feedback

"

bewilder2#0356 wrote:

I just simply can't relate on why do people think this game is way way too hard than it is. Dodge, use it. You feel weak ? Gear up, redo the zone, level-up abit, get some gears even if its blue. Learn, adapt, overcome, if you keep insisting with PoE 1 mindset, then its mostly "you" problem.

It's funny how you talk about gearing up after said:

"

bewilder2#0356 wrote:

C) We need a fail-safe in campaign, we need a reliable and guaranteed progression. The easiest and laziest way to do this is either by buffing damage or nerfing monsters. But the better one will be adjusting on how we acquire power through gears. No more Casino crafting, no more dead mods to dilute stat like light radius and accuracy (ffs its action combat game, WE DON'T NEED ACCURACY STAT). Path of Exile 2 can not have the same apple to apple itemization like Path of Exile 1.

I sticked with my crossbow about 20+ levels before RNG allow me to replace it and even then - I ask my friend about some runes, because I has no needed runes in my stash. I used almost all my currency to byu and brick weapons with no actual possibility to craft something decent. Because game has no crafting system.

I'm still don't understand how this slot machine can be called 'crafting' - this is most hateful shit about both games for me. But in 2 is much worse. Alterations is gone. Scourings is non existent. Workbench? Devs don't want allow me get on any piece of gear at least one specific stat from wide spread of stats that I needed. How I can upgrade my build if I actually has no options to make a build?

Runes is not help in this case cos they are one time use items. I constantly thinking about use them... or keep for better gear that I can get in the future. And if I change something - I can't rearrange runes for new combo.

And about dodge. It's a nice feature, but design philosophy of encounters turn diablo-like into souls-like. I swear, PoE2 play is more close to No Rest for the Wicked.

But this is not the end. Usability. Several times already I faced encounters where press dodge too fast result get damage from attack, but pressing too late result get damage from aftershock of same attack. You need press it right in time and you can't just break distance by dodge because a lot of monsters faster than you. Maybe this is mercenary problem, because speed drop while reroaling, but it's awful. And all of this in context of battle with one enemy. Double vulture rares event in act 3? Good luck to dodge them until split them out.

Also, why I can't dodge straight through enemies? This make dodge useless when you get surrounded. And you will be surrounded if you build has not enough damage because starved for gear.

"

DoEFotGS#0015 wrote:

"

bewilder2#0356 wrote:

I just simply can't relate on why do people think this game is way way too hard than it is. Dodge, use it. You feel weak ? Gear up, redo the zone, level-up abit, get some gears even if its blue. Learn, adapt, overcome, if you keep insisting with PoE 1 mindset, then its mostly "you" problem.

It's funny how you talk about gearing up after said:

"

bewilder2#0356 wrote:

C) We need a fail-safe in campaign, we need a reliable and guaranteed progression. The easiest and laziest way to do this is either by buffing damage or nerfing monsters. But the better one will be adjusting on how we acquire power through gears. No more Casino crafting, no more dead mods to dilute stat like light radius and accuracy (ffs its action combat game, WE DON'T NEED ACCURACY STAT). Path of Exile 2 can not have the same apple to apple itemization like Path of Exile 1.

I sticked with my crossbow about 20+ levels before RNG allow me to replace it and even then - I ask my friend about some runes, because I has no needed runes in my stash. I used almost all my currency to byu and brick weapons with no actual possibility to craft something decent. Because game has no crafting system.

I'm still don't understand how this slot machine can be called 'crafting' - this is most hateful shit about both games for me. But in 2 is much worse. Alterations is gone. Scourings is non existent. Workbench? Devs don't want allow me get on any piece of gear at least one specific stat from wide spread of stats that I needed. How I can upgrade my build if I actually has no options to make a build?

Runes is not help in this case cos they are one time use items. I constantly thinking about use them... or keep for better gear that I can get in the future. And if I change something - I can't rearrange runes for new combo.

And about dodge. It's a nice feature, but design philosophy of encounters turn diablo-like into souls-like. I swear, PoE2 play is more close to No Rest for the Wicked.

But this is not the end. Usability. Several times already I faced encounters where press dodge too fast result get damage from attack, but pressing too late result get damage from aftershock of same attack. You need press it right in time and you can't just break distance by dodge because a lot of monsters faster than you. Maybe this is mercenary problem, because speed drop while reroaling, but it's awful. And all of this in context of battle with one enemy. Double vulture rares event in act 3? Good luck to dodge them until split them out.

Also, why I can't dodge straight through enemies? This make dodge useless when you get surrounded. And you will be surrounded if you build has not enough damage because starved for gear.

I would rather they add a shove like Vermintide 2 to enhance skill expression than simplify the mechanics of the game by making dodge overpowered with phasing.

"

I'm still don't understand how this slot machine can be called 'crafting' - this is most hateful shit about both games for me. But in 2 is much worse. Alterations is gone. Scourings is non existent. Workbench? Devs don't want allow me get on any piece of gear at least one specific stat from wide spread of stats that I needed. How I can upgrade my build if I actually has no options to make a build?

this is something I don't get either. We literally went through all of this in POE1 way back in beta/1.0

The crafting bench was added into the game along with forsaken masters because the gearing is so bad when you don't have stacks of currency to spend rolling for what you want. Supposedly they were going to be doing smart loot (like they do for curio chests in heist) so that even though there isn't much dropping, what does drop should be on average, very usable. The problem is that smart loot doesn't seem to be on, and without alterations or scours we have no way to actually try and craft on a base. Even if we DID have those in the game, currency is currently way too rare in the campaign to reliably gear up.

I don't mind doing a grind to get gear/currency/etc, but it feels absolutely horrible to spend so much time farming for gold/materials but not even be able to effectively use them because you ALSO need an equivalent number of bases, and it's still just a gamble against a very poorly weighted (for players) slot machine, because they are still balancing the game 100% around trade.

they decided to take inspiration from last epoch on endgame, they should have also taken inspiration on the faction system that allows players to buff their self-found drops.

Finally: for those of you saying it's great that this game is so loot deprived and "difficult": it isn't. Extreme loot scarcity only works if the loot isn't so drastically impactful to your character. Dark Souls doesn't need to have loot explosions because you can pretty reliably clear the game on next to nothing. POE is not balanced around that, it's balanced around gear being 70-80% of your character's total power. When gear is so impactful, you cannot have loot in such a deprived state, it's horrible and just more frustrating than anything.

Enjoy it while it lasts because just like POE1, as EA continues and GGG watches the vast bulk of players complain about the same things (loot, sluggish movement, poor balance, frustration with ascendancies, etc) they will change them, because POE2 has to be profitable or they are out of work.

Also, while you're saying POE1 is so easy, it's braindead clear the story, etc...it's laughable how out of touch you are with the ARPG market in general, POE1 is widely considered to be one of the most brutal and difficult ARPGs on the market as of last Thursday. POE2 can now proudly wear that crown, but the audience for that type of ARPG is very small, and if they stick to their vision on this, it's gonna go the way of ruthless.

"

pixxpixx#4258 wrote:

"

Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

Focus on problems, not suggestions.

Then remember that some problems are non issues.

When Diablo 2 came out before hell mode was solved, if the developers listened to what people would have said we would not have a game still having lobbies immediately fill up weeks into ladder reset 20 years later. It seemed impossible, it seemed like the developers released a troll game mode that was never meant to be beat. It was solved.

You said 100 on ruthless PoE1 would not be reached, we reached it last league.

When PoE came out, you guys had the right idea. Starting perandus/prophecy, league after league after league you kept giving too much power and speed creep by addressing the problem of "we feel weak" in the wrong way.

Stand true to your vision, there is a happy middle ground here (such as tutorials on how to get resistances, and tweaks to positioning/nodes on the tree)

This game may seem hard, but it absolutely gives you the tools you need to succeed. People want to skip the campaign, the campaign is bloody brilliant, the ascendancy trials are brilliant, nothing but glowing feedback across my guild (who is nothing but D2 and PoE vets having zero issues with the game that are non-technical like crashes, all level 60+ or in maps/waystones).

We are all long time supporters and believe you have a chance to make a game that targets us hardcore ARPG players without needing to make a Ruthless GSF like you did for PoE1.

PoE1 has the extreme zoom power fantasy skip-the-campaign style game. Nerfing Malachai on release made me really upset, I don't even wear my Awakening shirt anymore.

The new ascendancies are very well done, only small rebalances needed. Again, player power being earned is extremely gratifying.

Keep the combat engaging and challenging, and add small rebalances to skills/trees.

One of the things my guild is most worried about is the extreme fun we had reaching the limited endgame will be lost after waves of buffs and power creep like PoE1. Campaign is a rite of passage, and it's earned not given. It was this way in D2, it used to be this way in PoE1, and it is the way to keep us ARPG players engaged PoE2. Frankly, if the game released in its current state, we would still play it over anything else.

You made a fantastic campaign and game, stay true to the vision. There are many players who aren't making forum posts and instead actually playing the game.

Signed, guild of longtime lifetime supporters of PoE, D2, and other awesome ARPGs.

Very well put, the core functions & combat of the game are a absolute home run, and it would be a damn shame to have it sacrificed to the altar of placating to the squawking. Thankfully, GGG have a strong vision and typically only design a game THEY want to play (aka. the correct take)

There is definitely noticeable hills and valleys in the difficulty but that's most likely due to the nature of how it was designed. Once smoothed out this is absolutely a excellent foundation for them to start layering more designed content on top.

Bolded what I am replying to:
It would be a shame, but we all know what happened to PoE1 for 6 years... Dollar signs in the eyes, GGG will cater to an era of participation trophy gamers. =/

"

Z3roSh0t#0155 wrote:

"

I'm still don't understand how this slot machine can be called 'crafting' - this is most hateful shit about both games for me. But in 2 is much worse. Alterations is gone. Scourings is non existent. Workbench? Devs don't want allow me get on any piece of gear at least one specific stat from wide spread of stats that I needed. How I can upgrade my build if I actually has no options to make a build?

this is something I don't get either. We literally went through all of this in POE1 way back in beta/1.0

The crafting bench was added into the game along with forsaken masters because the gearing is so bad when you don't have stacks of currency to spend rolling for what you want. Supposedly they were going to be doing smart loot (like they do for curio chests in heist) so that even though there isn't much dropping, what does drop should be on average, very usable. The problem is that smart loot doesn't seem to be on, and without alterations or scours we have no way to actually try and craft on a base. Even if we DID have those in the game, currency is currently way too rare in the campaign to reliably gear up.

I don't mind doing a grind to get gear/currency/etc, but it feels absolutely horrible to spend so much time farming for gold/materials but not even be able to effectively use them because you ALSO need an equivalent number of bases, and it's still just a gamble against a very poorly weighted (for players) slot machine, because they are still balancing the game 100% around trade.

they decided to take inspiration from last epoch on endgame, they should have also taken inspiration on the faction system that allows players to buff their self-found drops.

Finally: for those of you saying it's great that this game is so loot deprived and "difficult": it isn't. Extreme loot scarcity only works if the loot isn't so drastically impactful to your character. Dark Souls doesn't need to have loot explosions because you can pretty reliably clear the game on next to nothing. POE is not balanced around that, it's balanced around gear being 70-80% of your character's total power. When gear is so impactful, you cannot have loot in such a deprived state, it's horrible and just more frustrating than anything.

Enjoy it while it lasts because just like POE1, as EA continues and GGG watches the vast bulk of players complain about the same things (loot, sluggish movement, poor balance, frustration with ascendancies, etc) they will change them, because POE2 has to be profitable or they are out of work.

Also, while you're saying POE1 is so easy, it's braindead clear the story, etc...it's laughable how out of touch you are with the ARPG market in general, POE1 is widely considered to be one of the most brutal and difficult ARPGs on the market as of last Thursday. POE2 can now proudly wear that crown, but the audience for that type of ARPG is very small, and if they stick to their vision on this, it's gonna go the way of ruthless.

Exactly my problem. You can see I have a long history of giving GGG feedback in person and in the forums on speed creep and how they alienated their original audience. They have a chance to please us AND keep the new audience happy with PoE1.. I'm terrified GGG will have dollar sign eyes and alienate me again for 6 years, they said they will not add ruthless to PoE2 which is what brought me and my guild back to PoE from Diablo 2.

It would be an extreme shame for us to just resign to PoE1 ruthless because PoE2 becomes another damn zoomer game that plays more like vampire survivors than Path of Exile for gods sake.

"

Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

"

Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

Focus on problems, not suggestions.

Then remember that some problems are non issues.

When Diablo 2 came out before hell mode was solved, if the developers listened to what people would have said we would not have a game still having lobbies immediately fill up weeks into ladder reset 20 years later. It seemed impossible, it seemed like the developers released a troll game mode that was never meant to be beat. It was solved.

You said 100 on ruthless PoE1 would not be reached, we reached it last league.

When PoE came out, you guys had the right idea. Starting perandus/prophecy, league after league after league you kept giving too much power and speed creep by addressing the problem of "we feel weak" in the wrong way.

Stand true to your vision, there is a happy middle ground here (such as tutorials on how to get resistances, and tweaks to positioning/nodes on the tree)

This game may seem hard, but it absolutely gives you the tools you need to succeed. People want to skip the campaign, the campaign is bloody brilliant, the ascendancy trials are brilliant, nothing but glowing feedback across my guild (who is nothing but D2 and PoE vets having zero issues with the game that are non-technical like crashes, all level 60+ or in maps/waystones).

We are all long time supporters and believe you have a chance to make a game that targets us hardcore ARPG players without needing to make a Ruthless GSF like you did for PoE1.

PoE1 has the extreme zoom power fantasy skip-the-campaign style game. Nerfing Malachai on release made me really upset, I don't even wear my Awakening shirt anymore.

The new ascendancies are very well done, only small rebalances needed. Again, player power being earned is extremely gratifying.

Keep the combat engaging and challenging, and add small rebalances to skills/trees.

One of the things my guild is most worried about is the extreme fun we had reaching the limited endgame will be lost after waves of buffs and power creep like PoE1. Campaign is a rite of passage, and it's earned not given. It was this way in D2, it used to be this way in PoE1, and it is the way to keep us ARPG players engaged PoE2. Frankly, if the game released in its current state, we would still play it over anything else.

You made a fantastic campaign and game, stay true to the vision. There are many players who aren't making forum posts and instead actually playing the game.

Signed, guild of longtime lifetime supporters of PoE, D2, and other awesome ARPGs.

The most based posts on this forum have been forum Occultist and Necromancer profile pictures ♥

Occultist is the GOAT! the GOAT! cant wait till poe2 occy drops.

"

Sickness#1007 wrote:

I dont get it. I was excited for PoE 2 because I love PoE 1, not because I hate PoE 1 and want a sequel that is the complete opposite.

This hits hard. It feels like an insult.

"Oh you enjoyed the game we moulded for 12 years? Getting excited? Enough to pay to playtest the sequel? Well go f*** yourself, this is ruthless town boy!"

At least I get 30$ worth of points to buy the pilfering ring and a few cosmetics for the game I actually want to play. As long as they don't kill it that is.

I'm kind of worried about both games now, when a new league releases and it pulls more people than the game that fits their "Vision". Would be awkward to justify that to the company's owners. Don't want them to kill poe1, and butcher poe2 into a messy hybrid that pleases no-one, and needs 6-8 years to be in good shape.

I could get behind a post like this, when melee warriors stop being the laughing stock on the game.

Too real.

This game is awesome. If anything Act3 and Cruel are undertuned and need some tweaks to make them harder. Playing my second character has me legit excited to fight some of the bosses.