Just make POE 2 not gender locked, simple.

"

NicknamesOfGod#1810 wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

The tail attempting to wag the dog. ='[.]'=

To an extent, for sure. It's not that idea is terrible, though, it's just that GGG would have to divert resources away from the game's development that they clearly can't afford right now.

<snip>

Q1. Would you be willing to pay extra
Q2. If so, how much
Q3. Which character class

It might be interesting to have some actual data on that. What can I say? I'm a data-driven kinda guy.

A) AFAIK, in most places people expect us to refer to them by their preferred pronouns, which may or may not match their biology and/or appearance.

B)Many people in this thread are assuming the gender identity of certain character classes based off their appearance. If biology isn't destiny, pixels aren't either.

C) Where I am leading with that is not any disrespect, but that the game has limited role playing features. (more on this next) The character name may be more important than how they look. We can't give our characters beards, change hair color, make them thinner or more muscular. If GGG is going to add any kind of character customization, don't make it some extremely limited set, but allow something many players will want.

In answer to questions 1,2, 3
Yes, make them permanent supporter packs, with a lot more customization options for each class.

A basic $30 pack might get you the purported male/female pixelizatin models some people want.

The next supporter pack up at $60 would allow hair styles, color, skin tone, various tattoos or body mods etc (hook hand or peg leg for those who want to RP as a pirate for instance).

The Next customization pack could be $100, and have a real palette of customization choices (facial shape and structures, size, subtle variations in
most things).

The top customization pack would be $250 and include customizing pets. How many people would pay to have an exact type, color, pattern of dog/cat for instance? Whether to include/exclude previous pack exclusive pet variations?
I'm not sure on that one.

The packs could be set up so that at any time in the future, you could pay the difference and upgrade to the next. The packs could include some points and maybe a few MTX.

I don't think any of this should remotely be on GGG's to do list, at least not until PoE 2 is complete and all the existing Poe1 MTX are added in.

Personally, I would spend 100-250 for a very nice set of options as I described. GGG should also plan on adding them to PoE 1.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

"

DalaiLama#6738 wrote:

C) Where I am leading with that is not any disrespect, but that the game has limited role playing features. (more on this next) The character name may be more important than how they look. We can't give our characters beards, change hair color, make them thinner or more muscular. If GGG is going to add any kind of character customization, don't make it some extremely limited set, but allow something many players will want.

adding beards or changing little timmy's hair to blue at the char selection screen does nothing to add immersion on arpgs. especially when there's 500 projectiles on the screen while simultaneously being covered by all your equipment

"

Reinhart#6743 wrote:

Even when I was young I didn't mind playing as Blaze in Streets of Rage, alongside Adam and Axel. A friend of mine played Lara Croft on the console. People used to not care.

i think the majority of people didnt used to care, but a minority did.

and now the majority still dont care, a minority still care, but what has changed is that you are now aware there is a minority of people who care.








personally i dont care, i have no preferences for any sex when playing games. some people want a gender unlock because its a preference, like i would prefer my armour to be green instead of red, they would rather play a man/woman.

but i think we need to realise that is not how it is for everyone, for some people its not like having a favourite colour.





imagine someone has crippling arachnophobia and in the action arpg 3 of the 6 characters are spiders, they CANNOT play it.

gender dysphoria is a thing and at some point we are going to find the medical cause of it, you will be able to take a scan of someones brain, point to something on the scan and say see that bit looks like this instead of that? yep? ok, thats why this person experiences gender dysphoria.

its easy to pass this off as some kind of political statement or fuss, but for those people its more like a colour blind person asking for a colour blind option. its not some kind of liberal ideology, its a medical condition they have.







i dont have it, you might not have it, but some people have it. most people are not colour blind, most people are not allergic to nuts. but i would hesitate to always dismiss this as some kind of woke posturing or childish demands for a whimsical preference to be implemented. if thats how you perceive everyone who asks for this kind of thing i would say maybe just take a little step back and try looking at it from a different perspective.

doesnt mean the game has to add it, the game doesnt have to add a colour blind option either, the game can have a warning and say hey, you got epilepsy? this is not for you were gonna use mad strobing, you have been warned. got a nut allergy? cool, nutella? yeah, its not for you m8. its fine to not have gender options, loads of media doesnt have it. im just saying maybe we dont always understand the people asking for it and we unfairly dismiss them offhand without really 'getting it'.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

+1

but i would say there actually is a downside, which is more costs, they need to have an alternate voice and they have to ensure every piece of gear equipped doesnt look too weird for each of the character models.

theres a lot of work required.

Ohhh, you will hate me for this but...

Some roles are not suited to be taken by men.
I know this woke stuff you kids believe in those days...

But in my language, there is not even a word for "male witch".
It is not only the voice. The lore is what makes the character come alive.

While we have "witches" that live in bogs, and it feels natural to hear her how she wants to "settle here one day"... if this is spoken by a "male witch" (or whatever it is) it just wont have any effect.

Same with women.
I can "get into" the 160kg big Marauder, wearing armor that weights maybe half of that, turning it into mobile fortress.

But if I get 60kg woman with naked belly... pretending to be 10k HP shield wall... the game wont feel the same, you know?

It is the global feel this provides.
At least in the culture I am raised with.

If you see the things differently - I totally understand.
But just saying this so you know there are people who will not have easy time to accept those changes.

"

DalaiLama#6738 wrote:

"

NicknamesOfGod#1810 wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

The tail attempting to wag the dog. ='[.]'=

To an extent, for sure. It's not that idea is terrible, though, it's just that GGG would have to divert resources away from the game's development that they clearly can't afford right now.

<snip>

Q1. Would you be willing to pay extra
Q2. If so, how much
Q3. Which character class

It might be interesting to have some actual data on that. What can I say? I'm a data-driven kinda guy.

A) AFAIK, in most places people expect us to refer to them by their preferred pronouns, which may or may not match their biology and/or appearance.

B)Many people in this thread are assuming the gender identity of certain character classes based off their appearance. If biology isn't destiny, pixels aren't either.

C) Where I am leading with that is not any disrespect, but that the game has limited role playing features. (more on this next) The character name may be more important than how they look. We can't give our characters beards, change hair color, make them thinner or more muscular. If GGG is going to add any kind of character customization, don't make it some extremely limited set, but allow something many players will want.

In answer to questions 1,2, 3
Yes, make them permanent supporter packs, with a lot more customization options for each class.

A basic $30 pack might get you the purported male/female pixelizatin models some people want.

The next supporter pack up at $60 would allow hair styles, color, skin tone, various tattoos or body mods etc (hook hand or peg leg for those who want to RP as a pirate for instance).

The Next customization pack could be $100, and have a real palette of customization choices (facial shape and structures, size, subtle variations in
most things).

The top customization pack would be $250 and include customizing pets. How many people would pay to have an exact type, color, pattern of dog/cat for instance? Whether to include/exclude previous pack exclusive pet variations?
I'm not sure on that one.

The packs could be set up so that at any time in the future, you could pay the difference and upgrade to the next. The packs could include some points and maybe a few MTX.

I don't think any of this should remotely be on GGG's to do list, at least not until PoE 2 is complete and all the existing Poe1 MTX are added in.

Personally, I would spend 100-250 for a very nice set of options as I described. GGG should also plan on adding them to PoE 1.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

Huge waste of money for GGG even if they sold it. Just not needed. No way they'd make their money back. No way. It's a game, doesn't need to be a reflection of anything but itself.

"

Skellymancer#5263 wrote:

Ohhh, you will hate me for this but...

Some roles are not suited to be taken by men.
I know this woke stuff you kids believe in those days...

But in my language, there is not even a word for "male witch".
It is not only the voice. The lore is what makes the character come alive.

While we have "witches" that live in bogs, and it feels natural to hear her how she wants to "settle here one day"... if this is spoken by a "male witch" (or whatever it is) it just wont have any effect.

Same with women.
I can "get into" the 160kg big Marauder, wearing armor that weights maybe half of that, turning it into mobile fortress.

But if I get 60kg woman with naked belly... pretending to be 10k HP shield wall... the game wont feel the same, you know?

It is the global feel this provides.
At least in the culture I am raised with.

If you see the things differently - I totally understand.
But just saying this so you know there are people who will not have easy time to accept those changes.

i dont hate you for it at all, i just feel sad.

we play games for entertainment.

irl i m a weak ass aging dude who struggles to carry 10-20kgs. but in game i can carry huge ass swords/maces that weigh half my weight.

irl can a person casts spells even?

no they cant.

i will agree with you that male witches dont fit in "traditional fantasy lore" because they're traditionally female. but is POE traditional fantasy?

fantasy is what the makers do with it. if you're saying everyone needs to play by the same set of rules, then we need to have orcs, elves, dwards in poe.

even in baldurs gate, which actually is based of a preset fantasy world and ruleset. dungeon and dragons.

do you know that the term Wizards is a male centric word? Warlock too. it is similar to how witches are female centric. but if you notice in BG3, you can be any race, any gender to be any class.

and no one cared about it. zero. people enjoyed the game.

baldurs gate 2 was strict. some races could NOT pick certain classes.

people didnt care too. people enjoyed the game. i personally was annoyed for this choice tbh. but its an old game. things were different.

"back in the day" a lot of games/fantasy media was VERY sexist. the reason being was simple. men were the primary audience. huge swords and big titties was the easiest ways to sell things to guys.

but nowadays its changed where people find out "girls who like fantasy" exist. similar to how gamer girls actually do exist.

and thus thing change. we start to see things more homogenized.

when you mention stuff like "men do things men do, women do things women do" and "its how the culture i was brought up in"

dude.

I TOO LIVE IN YOUR SAME WORLD. i too live in the same culture. i acknowledge that women are physically weaker than men IRL. serena williams is the world champion in tennis but could beat a guy who was in the lower ranks (300 something? cant recall).

but if you're going to use that argument, dont you realize how silly everything gets pretty quickly?

in my culture people dont use magic. so i feel poe needs to get rid of magic.

in the place i live in the only monsters are in the forest or zoo.

we're talking about A FANTASY WORLD that GGG has crafted.

its an AWESOME WORLD where we have gods, literal interdimensional beings, time travel, corruption, thaumaturgy etc

and thru all that fantasy, you're just gonna say "oh women should remain witches".

have you seen balbala in action? omfg the first time i fought her she stabbed me a million times to death.

what about asala? she uses both magic and weapons! thats totally bad ass!

now look at the enemy. the apex of filth or something. the boss is clearly female but she rocks a huge ass 2 hander like nobodies business.

if we had it your way, she would be forced to fulfill a caster/ranged role.

so no, i m not hating you. zero hate. i just feel sad for you as you're too fixated on bringing social norms into a fantasy setting.

thats a very weird hill to die on. i consider myself a boomer and yet even i dont see anything wrong with removing such things as genderlocking.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

SNIP

so no, i m not hating you. zero hate. i just feel sad for you as you're too fixated on bringing social norms into a fantasy setting.

Real world social norms is exactly what people are asking for when they ask for "unlocking" gender. GGG has created a fantasy setting. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are turtles, they aren't lobsters. In PoE we have the Ranger, not an English archer, or one of the Mongol archers of Genghis Khan. GGG has made the characters as they are - that's their fantasy setting. The ranger has inclinations that some players may not want for themselves, but players aren't asking for GGG to "Unlock" the Ranger with more common inclinations. They can add to it or change it, but people asking for it are certainly bringing the outside world into the game in most cases.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

thats a very weird hill to die on. i consider myself a boomer and yet even i dont see anything wrong with removing such things as genderlocking.

It's not gender locking. There isn't an alternative gender to unlock. You can't remove something that doesn't exist. If GGG had already made alternative character models (including the binary ones people are asking for here) and were preventing players from using them, I would agree with "unlocking" them. They aren't. It's like saying GGG should remove the motorcycle locking in PoE 2. GGG isn't denying players motorcycles or anything on this issue.

People are making a big fuss over getting something for free which GGG has not decided to spend the time and money on. Maybe I'd be on your side if there was a kickst*rter kind of thing where players agreed with GGG to be bound by a given cost beforehand for gender choices for all characters. If players pledge a million or two to GGG, then I think GGG would take a good look at it.

(I'm not suggesting K***st**tr or any place other than here on GGG's official website - just the general idea behind it)

It's a free game. Most players don't care about what character they are playing, they just want the most efficient build. Some just want an efficient build whose playing style they enjoy. I would wager (in terms of GGG PoE fish) that most players would play a character that looked like a potato if it was far more efficient than any other. The topic in this thread doesn't effect the Metagame in any way, and thus isn't relative to most players.

I respect others opinions on this topic, including yours. If I didn't care I wouldn't have taken the time to respond. Your intentions are honorable, but the rationale is incorrect imo, and not reasonable for GGG to attempt in the near term. They are struggling just to add in PoE 1 MTX right now.

Hmmmmmmmm...



Gee, golly, I wonder why some folk prefer the other gender for their character:

"

DalaiLama#6738 wrote:

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

SNIP

so no, i m not hating you. zero hate. i just feel sad for you as you're too fixated on bringing social norms into a fantasy setting.

Real world social norms is exactly what people are asking for when they ask for "unlocking" gender. GGG has created a fantasy setting. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are turtles, they aren't lobsters. In PoE we have the Ranger, not an English archer, or one of the Mongol archers of Genghis Khan. GGG has made the characters as they are - that's their fantasy setting. The ranger has inclinations that some players may not want for themselves, but players aren't asking for GGG to "Unlock" the Ranger with more common inclinations. They can add to it or change it, but people asking for it are certainly bringing the outside world into the game in most cases.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

thats a very weird hill to die on. i consider myself a boomer and yet even i dont see anything wrong with removing such things as genderlocking.

It's not gender locking. There isn't an alternative gender to unlock. You can't remove something that doesn't exist. If GGG had already made alternative character models (including the binary ones people are asking for here) and were preventing players from using them, I would agree with "unlocking" them. They aren't. It's like saying GGG should remove the motorcycle locking in PoE 2. GGG isn't denying players motorcycles or anything on this issue.

People are making a big fuss over getting something for free which GGG has not decided to spend the time and money on. Maybe I'd be on your side if there was a kickst*rter kind of thing where players agreed with GGG to be bound by a given cost beforehand for gender choices for all characters. If players pledge a million or two to GGG, then I think GGG would take a good look at it.

(I'm not suggesting K***st**tr or any place other than here on GGG's official website - just the general idea behind it)

It's a free game. Most players don't care about what character they are playing, they just want the most efficient build. Some just want an efficient build whose playing style they enjoy. I would wager (in terms of GGG PoE fish) that most players would play a character that looked like a potato if it was far more efficient than any other. The topic in this thread doesn't effect the Metagame in any way, and thus isn't relative to most players.

I respect others opinions on this topic, including yours. If I didn't care I wouldn't have taken the time to respond. Your intentions are honorable, but the rationale is incorrect imo, and not reasonable for GGG to attempt in the near term. They are struggling just to add in PoE 1 MTX right now.

i actually have a suggestion that would solve all the "money issues"

just let players choose the class, THEN choose the character models. then we dont need to worry about "genderswapped characters not existing".

i ve actually suggested this many times before. tbh i dont really care for a karui female or a shadow thats female. conversely a male sorceror model either. we already have so many character models that GGG has "made into existence" let us choose which one to play as. problem solved.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

i actually have a suggestion that would solve all the "money issues"

just let players choose the class, THEN choose the character models. then we dont need to worry about "genderswapped characters not existing".

That's a GREAT idea. I'd vote for that, if it mattered in any way. Apply it to PoE 1 as well. I like the Duelist graphics and would make Marauder characters with that model.

If I could use the witch graphics and make a stabby stab melee dagger witch, I'd be very happy. (Mainly because I've never found a good pure melee witch build that isn't some kind of shotgunning effect).

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

i ve actually suggested this many times before.

Apologies, I didn't read through the entire thread, just occasionally checking in on it.

Considering that (Barring Ascendancy Skills) PoE allows characters of any class to use any weapon/skill that they meet the requirements for, your idea is very sensible, and seems easy enough to implement.