ExileCon Put My Support Into a Conflicted Place

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Reinhart wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

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exsea wrote:

sure we definitely would get improvements in poe 1.

but are you aware of the old exilecon 2019 announcements? poe2 and poe1 would be compatible. poe2's new gem system would replace poe1. any new mechanics and systems in poe2 would replace/improve poe1. poe1's gameplay would thus improved.

i gave a specific example, melee combat. poe2's melee combat is so freaking polished, i m amazed at how awesome it is.

ggg did mention it is very likely NOT going to port the animation/character rigging onto poe1, and by saying that, its likely we wont get those new melee animations and logically we will also not be getting the melee improvements.

all the time and effort on poe2 so far was supported by everyone who loved poe1. we were happy that ggg diverted resources away from poe1 to poe2 because whatever that was gonna be in poe2 would affect poe1 too.

the more obvious improvement is the new gem system. what does poe1 get?

zilch.

GGG's change of direction with poe 2 DIRECTLY meant that all the effort put into POE2 gave ZERO benefit to POE1.

That is because they couldnt change the engine in POE1 without significantly increasing the requirements for the game. That said they gave a new engine recently so maybe they are doing something about it, who knows.

At exilecon in 2019, GGG didn't give me the impression that the old engine was holding them back. As a matter of fact, it all doesn't matter, since the item system, the currency system, the skill tree system is all independent of the engine you use. From the first exilecon it was pretty obvious they were either going to improve the old engine or better could port the old game with updated item systems to the new engine. The engine is not the reason why Path of Exile 2 is a standalone game. And if GGG says so, it is an excuse.

The reasons are:

1) They want to go back to their "vision". They tested the waters with Ruthless by implementing it in POE 1. Most didn't like it, so they are keeping POE 1 alive for the moment and separate from POE 2.
2) They hit maximum revenue by drawing in the Diablo 3 zoom zoom crowd by killing off their original poe philosophy. You could actually say they sacrificed POE 1 for making POE 2.
3) They are now creating a game which is a mix of PoE, Diablo 4, Dark Souls & Hades. They expect they will be able to expand their current playerbase 10-fold by catering to these new type of gamers.

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Thesuffering wrote:

1. The animators have stated multiple times how working with POE1 was bad.

2. You are way off with your reasons. POE2 is just as zoomy as POE1 if not more so. Some of the attendees moved the support gems from the default to 4 links and they were zooming just fine even in those acts. This demo was mainly a mechanics showcase tho.

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Thesuffering wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

At exilecon in 2019, GGG didn't give me the impression that the old engine was holding them back. As a matter of fact, it all doesn't matter, since the item system, the currency system, the skill tree system is all independent of the engine you use. From the first exilecon it was pretty obvious they were either going to improve the old engine or better could port the old game with updated item systems to the new engine. The engine is not the reason why Path of Exile 2 is a standalone game. And if GGG says so, it is an excuse.

The reasons are:

1) They want to go back to their "vision". They tested the waters with Ruthless by implementing it in POE 1. Most didn't like it, so they are keeping POE 1 alive for the moment and separate from POE 2.
2) They hit maximum revenue by drawing in the Diablo 3 zoom zoom crowd by killing off their original poe philosophy. You could actually say they sacrificed POE 1 for making POE 2.
3) They are now creating a game which is a mix of PoE, Diablo 4, Dark Souls & Hades. They expect they will be able to expand their current playerbase 10-fold by catering to these new type of gamers.

1. The animators have stated multiple times how working with POE1 was bad.

2. You are way off with your reasons. POE2 is just as zoomy as POE1 if not more so. Some of the attendees moved the support gems from the default to 4 links and they were zooming just fine even in those acts. This demo was mainly a mechanics showcase tho.

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Thesuffering wrote:

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exsea wrote:

but are you aware of the old exilecon 2019 announcements? poe2 and poe1 would be compatible. poe2's new gem system would replace poe1. any new mechanics and systems in poe2 would replace/improve poe1. poe1's gameplay would thus improved.

That is because they couldnt change the engine in POE1 without significantly increasing the requirements for the game. That said they gave a new engine recently so maybe they are doing something about it, who knows.

As you can tell I am a glass half full kind of guy, so I always give the benefit of the doubt and the most charitable explanations.

But the lack of recent improvements could be because of a lack of resources, maybe POE1 will get improvements when they get 6x the size of thier current team. As POE2 starts nearing completion we will get better and better leagues like this upcoming one. I think gameplay improvements will be in the future, but they said animations couldnt be changed because of the tech in POE1 which is why they were making POE2. That is what they said AFAIK in Exilecon 1.

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stormyknight wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

1. The animators have stated multiple times how working with POE1 was bad.

2. You are way off with your reasons. POE2 is just as zoomy as POE1 if not more so. Some of the attendees moved the support gems from the default to 4 links and they were zooming just fine even in those acts. This demo was mainly a mechanics showcase tho.

Im going to hit you with the cold hards, POE2 wont be anything like poe1 for at least 5+ years after release they literally said that at exilecon, and just because they said they tested it at 15 attacks p/s, thats their hypothetical top end of the system.. Its going to be vanilla systems a BIG RESET for years.

The current support gem structure almost exclusively does not have additional damage effects its mostly on hit and effect style supports. What do you think their roll / evasion system is going to look like even speed up to 100% movespeed, its going to be comical.. It would and will look stupid.

POE2 is going to be a slog for years.

Their game plan is literally to release vanilla poe again in a new engine with 'modern' sic (diablo 4, hades, dark souls) gameplay mechanics and farm people with the same content rehashed into the new engine for the next 10 yrs.

Chris as much as admitted this in the reddit post cpl years ago where he dunked on reddit for being bitches and was harping about the next generation of 10 yr players.

You think you are getting all or any of poe 1 content on release ? You will get "season 1"...SIGN UP YOUR BATTLEPASS AND STRAP IN FOR THE NEXT 10 YRS.

Thats cool and all, but im not here for that im here for poe as it is.

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Reinhart wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

At exilecon in 2019, GGG didn't give me the impression that the old engine was holding them back. As a matter of fact, it all doesn't matter, since the item system, the currency system, the skill tree system is all independent of the engine you use. From the first exilecon it was pretty obvious they were either going to improve the old engine or better could port the old game with updated item systems to the new engine. The engine is not the reason why Path of Exile 2 is a standalone game. And if GGG says so, it is an excuse.

The reasons are:

1) They want to go back to their "vision". They tested the waters with Ruthless by implementing it in POE 1. Most didn't like it, so they are keeping POE 1 alive for the moment and separate from POE 2.
2) They hit maximum revenue by drawing in the Diablo 3 zoom zoom crowd by killing off their original poe philosophy. You could actually say they sacrificed POE 1 for making POE 2.
3) They are now creating a game which is a mix of PoE, Diablo 4, Dark Souls & Hades. They expect they will be able to expand their current playerbase 10-fold by catering to these new type of gamers.

1. The animators have stated multiple times how working with POE1 was bad.

2. You are way off with your reasons. POE2 is just as zoomy as POE1 if not more so. Some of the attendees moved the support gems from the default to 4 links and they were zooming just fine even in those acts. This demo was mainly a mechanics showcase tho.

1.) Like I already said you can make a new engine and port your old/updated game systems in there.

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exsea wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

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exsea wrote:

but are you aware of the old exilecon 2019 announcements? poe2 and poe1 would be compatible. poe2's new gem system would replace poe1. any new mechanics and systems in poe2 would replace/improve poe1. poe1's gameplay would thus improved.

That is because they couldnt change the engine in POE1 without significantly increasing the requirements for the game. That said they gave a new engine recently so maybe they are doing something about it, who knows.

As you can tell I am a glass half full kind of guy, so I always give the benefit of the doubt and the most charitable explanations.

But the lack of recent improvements could be because of a lack of resources, maybe POE1 will get improvements when they get 6x the size of thier current team. As POE2 starts nearing completion we will get better and better leagues like this upcoming one. I think gameplay improvements will be in the future, but they said animations couldnt be changed because of the tech in POE1 which is why they were making POE2. That is what they said AFAIK in Exilecon 1.

i can get that you're being optimistic and giving GGG the benefit of doubt.

i dont know the specifics of the game engine. thats very technical. but even if what you said about the game engine is true, GGG still has an obligation to keep to their word. they did not. not only did they not keep to their word, they went against it.

isnt that betrayal?

as for poe1 getting improvements after poe2 is completed.

bro. i know you want to defend GGG but you're not acknowledging what i mentioned about how poe2 was meant to fix and improve poe1. if they dropped the ball they dropped the ball. is it difficult for you to accept that? my entire purpose of explaining to you in detail is to let you understand what the current situation is. GGG dropped the ball. they deceived us.

the change in poe2 set back any significant improvement perhaps even by years.

so what if "they can fix/improve poe1 AFTER they finish poe2" the fact changed. THEY DECEIVED the players. the announced improvements are not coming AS announced.

at this point can we trust GGG to even bother coming back to POE1? they already lied wide in the open. i bear you no illwill, but i see so many people defending GGG to no end.

i would also want you to understand, most of us complaining about this point want POE2 to succeed. the only thing is we're pissed that we were deceived and that POE2's success will come at a large cost to POE1.

POE1's improvements and fixes were sacrificed for the success of POE2.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Dude, do you even know who I am

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Thesuffering wrote:

I know you said that POE2 was supposed to fix POE1. But I do not know if they said that.

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Thesuffering wrote:

But Exilecon 1 was a long time ago.

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Thesuffering wrote:

I know that the linking system was supposed to be changed with the new system in POE2 from the original exilecon. But I dont remember them explicitly saying that they will fix POE1 in anyway way.