ExileCon Put My Support Into a Conflicted Place

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ChanBalam wrote:

I want to support GGG but won't until they improve melee in some fashion. POE2 is too far away to worry about. I spend money to say I approve of today's game play. I like Crucible and it is worthy of a supporter pack, but I'm going to wait to see what is in store for 3.22.

If the next 4-5 leagues continue to be just test beds for POE2 and not to improve POE1, then I will be less inclined to spend any money. If weapon trees are just a "one and done" for POE1, then no support from me. If they go core or are in some way supported going forward: yippie kai yea!

That's a pretty healthy approach, and I respect it. Waiting on melee to improve, especially knowing what we know now, is a long shot at best.

For me spending money on POE is a way of rating what is important for me in playing. I cannot control what they do with my "donation" or what they spend it on and doesn't really matter to me. I spend it to say "thank you, keep up the good work."

As a melee only player, that is my focus. I do agree melee improvements are a long shot. :(

I understand your cynicism, and I get where you are coming from.

I've always had the view of supporting GGG and not PoE when I purchase stuff. I've always known that my support has gone towards the Mac client, the PS client, the XB client, the mobile game and now PoE 2. I don't really have too much of a problem with that per se.

But they sold us something, and made their first, huge convention around that fact. When they first knew that they "had" to separate the games, they should've said it straight away. No need for a new convention, no need to sugar coat it; just tell us. Be open and direct. I understand this may have been bad for business, but even so...

The only thing that can "save" this whole situation for me, personally, are these two points:

- They have to SHOW us that PoE 1 will get IMPROVEMENTS (mechanically and graphically), and not just additions, so I can keep playing PoE 1.

Or:

- PoE 2 being a fast paced game (at least in the endgame), so I can switch games.

PoE and PoE 2 being one game, created A LOT of promises for the players that actually like the game. Improved melee, new animations, new physics, new base weapons, new skill system. ALL of that is suddenly off the table for the game we know and love, and have been transferred over to a game we don't know, and that frankly seems very different. I think ALL people with a hint of empathy can relate to that feeling kinda shit.

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Raycheetah wrote:

...
And now, especially having heard how Jonathan (team lead on PoE II) badmouthed PoE 1 in interviews at Exilecon,
...

I feel like Jonathan didn't really say anything the dev team hasn't openly stated already in the past. It's a well known fact that Chris and the remaining founders are not happy with how fast and ludicrous the game has become; they feel trapped by that because if they try and crank the game back to where they feel it's supposed to be the playerbase would explode. Chris has accepted that state of affairs with the best grace he can, but I've seen plenty of comments from him in interviews I've watched that line up with the fact that he thinks the game is way out of spec and he's feeling forced to run with it because he can't stuff the genie back in the bottle now. And really - what game company head wouldn't want to update fifteen year old graphics and visual fidelity in his game if he could? Of course Path 1 is kinda fugly. That's what happens with assets from 2007.

As for the common complaints that Jonathan "doesn't even know how PoE1 works anymore!"...umm, yeah? And? He's the game director for Path 2, all his work hours are tied up working on his game. He doesn't have time in his workday to get read in on every last detail of Path the First's development, that's Chris's bailiwick now. And even Chris often has to punt to his dev team on interview questions because he's the Big Picture guy, not the In-The-Trenches dev guy. Game directors are supposed to have the broad overview of the game in their heads, deciding on direction, not on specific nitty-gritty implementation.

Yes, Jonathan said he wants to trim off the top five percentile of Path 2 if he can manage it. To paraphrase: "it'd be nice if we could keep it to sixty projectiles a second instead of six hundred, so you can see what the hell's happening on your screen and actually have some reactivity and interplay with the boss, and so our game doesn't actually break and light the servers on fire again." Sixty projectiles a second is still a lot of god damn projectiles.

Even the seeming over-focus on bosses in the Path 2 coverage is because it's Path of Exile - the devs expect you to get to the point where you're weed-whacking the weenies on the map without issue or concern, they focused on the bosses because those are the fights that actually matter and the pieces of design they're most proud of. Why would they focus entire hours of their presentation on a guy mindlessly chewing through a few thousand white weenies chasing that ZCHUUUNG sound of the loot filter announcing Loot Victory? Nobody wants to watch that, and it's not informative at all.

Y'all are fine. Really. I understand feeling dispirited, and if you don't want to support the game anymore nobody is even slightly going to try and force you to. What you do with your money is 100% up to you and always has been. But this idea that Jonathan is "badmouthing" PoE1 simply isn't true from any of the interviews I saw.

"

Phrazz wrote:

I understand your cynicism, and I get where you are coming from.

I've always had the view of supporting GGG and not PoE when I purchase stuff. I've always known that my support has gone towards the Mac client, the PS client, the XB client, the mobile game and now PoE 2. I don't really have too much of a problem with that per se.

But they sold us something, and made their first, huge convention around that fact. When they first knew that they "had" to separate the games, they should've said it straight away. No need for a new convention, no need to sugar coat it; just tell us. Be open and direct. I understand this may have been bad for business, but even so...

The only thing that can "save" this whole situation for me, personally, are these two points:

- They have to SHOW us that PoE 1 will get IMPROVEMENTS (mechanically and graphically), and not just additions, so I can keep playing PoE 1.

Or:

- PoE 2 being a fast paced game (at least in the endgame), so I can switch games.

PoE and PoE 2 being one game, created A LOT of promises for the players that actually like the game. Improved melee, new animations, new physics, new base weapons, new skill system. ALL of that is suddenly off the table for the game we know and love, and have been transferred over to a game we don't know, and that frankly seems very different. I think ALL people with a hint of empathy can relate to that feeling kinda shit.

100% agreed. I don't know what POE2 will end up being, just what we've seen so far. It does appear to have taken heavy inspiration from Ruthless, and if that proves to be true, it will be hard to support. I've played Ruthless enough and far enough to know that it's fun temporarily but quickly transforms to heavy grind and little joy. But if it somehow manages to be close to POE1, then cool, I'm in. But until that day, I'm not spending a fucking dime. They've duped me for years and they knew in early 2020!!!

Hell, even if I like POE2, it will be hard to forget this. They have been lying to us for years and they knew it. They f'ing knew it.

POE2 looks nice graphically, and that's just salt in the wound of what was promised for POE1. I have an axe to grind and that bitch is going to get sharp before I get over this.

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1453R wrote:

Y'all are fine. Really. I understand feeling dispirited, and if you don't want to support the game anymore nobody is even slightly going to try and force you to. What you do with your money is 100% up to you and always has been. But this idea that Jonathan is "badmouthing" PoE1 simply isn't true from any of the interviews I saw.

I respect that you're good with things, but please don't pretend to know whether I'm fine or not. I'm definitely not. I've never been so close to moving on from POE than I am right now, which hurts because I love POE1 -- big emphasis on the 1 part of that.

I know Starfield is coming out soon and I was conflicted because of the way it hits the new league. Now I'm seriously considering giving that thing a try at launch and just dropping my first league in a long long time.

No, I'm definitely not fine with GGG.

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1453R wrote:

...

Do us both a favor, and don't talk to me. ='[.]'=

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1453R wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

I respect that you're good with things, but please don't pretend to know whether I'm fine or not. I'm definitely not. I've never been so close to moving on from POE than I am right now, which hurts because I love POE1 -- big emphasis on the 1 part of that.

I know Starfield is coming out soon and I was conflicted because of the way it hits the new league. Now I'm seriously considering giving that thing a try at launch and just dropping my first league in a long long time.

No, I'm definitely not fine with GGG.

[Removed by Support]

Thanks.

As for POE2 = Ruthless, that is a bit far. But I do think it's taking some inspiration from Ruthless. How much is TBD, but it's there. And I've played enough Ruthless to know that if there is enough of it in there, it will not be fun for me.

We don't have enough information because we've not seen the end game yet. But if I had to guess right now, yeah, it's taken heavy inspiration from it.

"

Phrazz wrote:

I understand your cynicism, and I get where you are coming from.

I've always had the view of supporting GGG and not PoE when I purchase stuff. I've always known that my support has gone towards the Mac client, the PS client, the XB client, the mobile game and now PoE 2. I don't really have too much of a problem with that per se.

But they sold us something, and made their first, huge convention around that fact. When they first knew that they "had" to separate the games, they should've said it straight away. No need for a new convention, no need to sugar coat it; just tell us. Be open and direct. I understand this may have been bad for business, but even so...

The only thing that can "save" this whole situation for me, personally, are these two points:

- They have to SHOW us that PoE 1 will get IMPROVEMENTS (mechanically and graphically), and not just additions, so I can keep playing PoE 1.

Or:

- PoE 2 being a fast paced game (at least in the endgame), so I can switch games.

PoE and PoE 2 being one game, created A LOT of promises for the players that actually like the game. Improved melee, new animations, new physics, new base weapons, new skill system. ALL of that is suddenly off the table for the game we know and love, and have been transferred over to a game we don't know, and that frankly seems very different. I think ALL people with a hint of empathy can relate to that feeling kinda shit.

Nicely said; I agree. I am willing to wait and see how things unfold.

Why worry about how is the game going to be in 2 years from now? If you like the game now, I think it's money well spent buying a supporter pack every now and then.