ExileCon Put My Support Into a Conflicted Place

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SilentSymphony wrote:

This post was readable enough to reply to, I thought you were legit trolling before, I'll adjust my perception of your posts.

What do you consider misinformation though?

100% I believe the things im saying about the Unified endgame to be true and that they essentially lied to us.

Again, They told me that and then i told hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of people that re-assuring them for years that it would be unified and everything would be ok, Chris Wilson's got this, I had the faith.

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Reid777 wrote:

Thanks, yes my post might got a bit too long, not 100% as readable as I would like. Hope to improve one day.

So point by point:

1. Misinformation. For last 4 years most posts related to PoE2 tried to diminish it's scope, calling it "just new campaing and some updates" or "just bigger exansion", forgetting that at Exilecon 2019 it was presented as complete overhaul of the game. This is relevant, because that misnformation set expectations of people wrong way.

The real information is still available in Exilecon 2019 footage and on old PoE2 website, which could be still found.

2. Unified gameplay. This is not a convoluted way of trying to insult you, it is an honest question. How would you imagine that "unified gameplay"? For me it was always obvious that "unified gameplay" means having basically new game (PoE2) with an option to play old campaing and somehow reuse old standard items. No matter what would you play, PoE1 campaing, PoE2 campaign or end game, you would do that using PoE2 mechanics and game systems. The only thing left from PoE1 would be campaign.

Again I refer to source materials from 2019.

3.There we get to the elephant in the room, those old characters and items. I understand that it can be a point of grieviance here. Not being able to use your collection in PoE2 probably isn't the best feeling. On the other hand it is good to look back and think about how realistic that would be. Considering the scope of changes (at the time, in 2019), even if they tried very hard, I do not think that it would be, in any meaningful way successful.

4. The final point, the "lie'. The 3 points above were just background, I believe very important background. Main question here: What is the "lie" here and when that lie actuallyhappen.ed. In 2019 PoE2 was in early development stages, their plans were bold, actually enormous but everything could have changed. Again it was and still is in development. Yes, during that development plans changed a bit and in the end those changes have been communicated. Could they have been communicated earlier? Maybe, maybe not. Again we do not know when exactly they finalised details of it. Announcing it early and then making more changes to it could spread more confusion. At that time there was already a lot of confusion and misinformation about PoE2.What we know is that around April 2021 they started going in that direction. We do not know how much time passed beore they ironed their vision in that regards.

4b. I know that at the moment people do not feel like that (especially ones who invested a lot into standard) but the change in delivery of PoE2 is much less significant that some people believe. In accordance to CW 85-90% players play leagues, not standard. From those 10-15% probably good number wouldn't mind fresh start. I am not saying that standard players should be treated worse. I am just saying that developer has to look at playerbase as a whole and cannot make everyone happy 100%. So I suspect that GGG didn't consider 'split' as that big departure from original plan. I believe they consider it much more as a possitive thing than some players perceive.

In the end I do not see any lie or malicious misinformation from GGG side here. Maybe some not so great pulic relations and marketing, that's all.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I apologize for my harsh remarks in the previous post at your "mountain of arguments with no proof". and thanks for the constructive and highly organized reply.

To answer your question:
Unified Endgame from the information i received was supposed to be a separated campaign experience but once you reached a certain point in each games progression you would be able to interact with the other and at this point the games would be essentially be the same except PoE1 and PoE2 would have different characters and skill tree.

This is what i have thus spent a lot of time convincing people would be the result because well.. Faith in GGG has actually been quite rewarding up until recent times lol.

Anything more would just be speculation on my part and there's other threads for that :P

"

ZenJelly wrote:

LMAO, he's right and you're wrong. And your rational argument is “stop responding to me" HAHAHAHAHA zooooooooom

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

Reid777 wrote:

Thanks, yes my post might got a bit too long, not 100% as readable as I would like. Hope to improve one day.

So point by point:

1. Misinformation. For last 4 years most posts related to PoE2 tried to diminish it's scope, calling it "just new campaing and some updates" or "just bigger exansion", forgetting that at Exilecon 2019 it was presented as complete overhaul of the game. This is relevant, because that misnformation set expectations of people wrong way.

The real information is still available in Exilecon 2019 footage and on old PoE2 website, which could be still found.

2. Unified gameplay. This is not a convoluted way of trying to insult you, it is an honest question. How would you imagine that "unified gameplay"? For me it was always obvious that "unified gameplay" means having basically new game (PoE2) with an option to play old campaing and somehow reuse old standard items. No matter what would you play, PoE1 campaing, PoE2 campaign or end game, you would do that using PoE2 mechanics and game systems. The only thing left from PoE1 would be campaign.

Again I refer to source materials from 2019.

3.There we get to the elephant in the room, those old characters and items. I understand that it can be a point of grieviance here. Not being able to use your collection in PoE2 probably isn't the best feeling. On the other hand it is good to look back and think about how realistic that would be. Considering the scope of changes (at the time, in 2019), even if they tried very hard, I do not think that it would be, in any meaningful way successful.

4. The final point, the "lie'. The 3 points above were just background, I believe very important background. Main question here: What is the "lie" here and when that lie actuallyhappen.ed. In 2019 PoE2 was in early development stages, their plans were bold, actually enormous but everything could have changed. Again it was and still is in development. Yes, during that development plans changed a bit and in the end those changes have been communicated. Could they have been communicated earlier? Maybe, maybe not. Again we do not know when exactly they finalised details of it. Announcing it early and then making more changes to it could spread more confusion. At that time there was already a lot of confusion and misinformation about PoE2.What we know is that around April 2021 they started going in that direction. We do not know how much time passed beore they ironed their vision in that regards.

4b. I know that at the moment people do not feel like that (especially ones who invested a lot into standard) but the change in delivery of PoE2 is much less significant that some people believe. In accordance to CW 85-90% players play leagues, not standard. From those 10-15% probably good number wouldn't mind fresh start. I am not saying that standard players should be treated worse. I am just saying that developer has to look at playerbase as a whole and cannot make everyone happy 100%. So I suspect that GGG didn't consider 'split' as that big departure from original plan. I believe they consider it much more as a possitive thing than some players perceive.

In the end I do not see any lie or malicious misinformation from GGG side here. Maybe some not so great pulic relations and marketing, that's all.

I apologize for my harsh remarks in the previous post at your "mountain of arguments with no proof". and thanks for the constructive and highly organized reply.

To answer your question:
Unified Endgame from the information i received was supposed to be a separated campaign experience but once you reached a certain point in each games progression you would be able to interact with the other and at this point the games would be essentially be the same except PoE1 and PoE2 would have different characters and skill tree.

This is what i have thus spent a lot of time convincing people would be the result because well.. Faith in GGG has actually been quite rewarding up until recent times lol.

Anything more would just be speculation on my part and there's other threads for that :P

"

Thesuffering wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

Snip

I think the problem is that they arent very communicative. If they told us when they changed their plans, it would have hit people like yourself a lot softer.

Anyway I think POE1 will continue with the changes but POE1 will first and foremost be for less PCs. And there is only so much you could do with that.

That said I think it is a good idea to keep the games separate and have 2 distinct styles of POE.

I think also they will improve the graphics and animations over the next 5 years when it is absurd to cater to people with PCs over a decade old.

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Ahewaz wrote:

@reid777

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM5SFgYbTaY

The above link is to Exilecon 2019.

At 1:01:16. The screen specifically says 1 game 2 campaigns.

I think this is what people mean when they say it was supposed to be the same game.

To be honest, I never heard anything about it being split into 2 games till Exilecon 2023 but I suppose that is my fault.

From the reaction of the audience, I do not think most of them knew either.

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@Nubatron - I always enjoy your posts. I was very excited (still am) about the split. I hope you are around for it, it will be nice to see how things end up. From the spirited conversations, it feels like some are not reading your posts or interpreting them as they see fit instead of your point of view. I doubt you will be able to change that, so just have a glass of your favourite beverage instead.

As ForeverHappyChan (yes, Charan (Ruler of Wraeclast), I know who you are) said, no one said what the $ would be used for however, I would like to think that the $ is being used for future expansions in PoE1 for the enjoyment of everyone. I am sure some of it is.

My take on supporting has always been this. I am hopefully giving the developers a bonus for the league. I either enjoyed it or loved the MTX. Either way, they should be appreciated. I am also hoping to contribute towards resources for the next league.

Had they outright asked me for support for PoE2, I would have given it, willingly.

I was not around for the start of this game but did they not open it up to people & take contributions before starting PoE1?

From the WIKI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_of_Exile
During closed beta, by 21 January 2013, Path of Exile received US$2.2m in crowd-sourced contributions

Maybe the same thing for PoE2 would have been better.

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This unfortunate problem, that people focused just on one bit of the information, instead of digesting whole.

It seems that focusing on this one headline people got absolute misconception what PoE2 was and still is meant to be.

It looks like people though that they will be able to still play PoE1 as was, within PoE2 ecosystem, somehow. That was never in the books.

It was advertised and then further explained that, yes 2 separate campaigns will lead to the same end game. At the same time it has been highlighted (yes Exilecon 2019) that basically every core game system will be reworked. In practice it meant that PoE1, at least on the systems level, would be no more.



I never advocated that we knew about "the split" in 2019.
What I advocate is that we knew that PoE2 will be very different game from PoE1.
We also knew that PoE2 will replace PoE1.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

They knew this was the public perception, There's zero chance they did not know.

So why did they allow so many of us to believe that for so long, I just don't understand unless the play was to keep us on the hook so they didn't lose funding after they changed their mind..