New SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 Thread

Um, okay. Sweden is literally in the top 3 European countries (possibly #1) in terms of death count if we exclude the Central European virus hubs with 10k+ infections.

Numerically their 100+ deaths ain't bad. Comparatively...

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Then don't make assumptions?

How about you just clarify what you said instead of being so defensive? So we can stop going in circles?

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I am saying it is good to make people fear the thing, you are saying it is not. Thats whats important.

That's what I thought we were talking about.

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You need to understand that most of what you say is happeningis because the countries are too lenient. False information for example. If countries are fast to curb it - panic buying crap wont happen.

Also, according to me people will be LESS INCLINED TO GO OUTSIDE, so there will be less of what you are describing.

Yeah, no.

It's happening because people are freaking out. Sweden isn't losing their shit over it. And neither is Mexico, despite it really needing to quarantine itself. Better late than never.

If people aren't freaked out. You don't get problems like that.

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No, they are not. They are absolutely not. Trust me, I read about it every day. Measures are constantly being tightened. Why is that? Because people cant follow the instructions.

Measures being tightened doesn't mean most people aren't following instructions.

It means that the perceived risk outweighs the possible consequence of not enacting stricter guidelines.

For example after the New Zealand shooting there was an intense crackdown on gun laws in that country from a single incident. Not because everyone was suddenly shooting each other with guns.(most people are following the law)

I can say at least within my neighborhood block, all of us are pretty much following the quarantine to the letter and it's still gotten more restrictive in the area (I live near the elderly and a middle school).

So, yeah, not experiencing whatever you think is happening in the rest of the world.

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You cant tell them to distance themselves, you cant beg them to do it, you either tell them to stop or they will kill their family members or impose heavy sanctions. It is best to mix it up instead of going too far in either direction.

You are going insane if this is what you think.

If I read this aloud, people would look at me like a psycho.

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So you agree with me that people are sheep who don't understand what is good for them? So, what makes your opinion special then? You say they will keep breaking curfew and be idiots no matter what. So whats stopping them from doing these things here

The difference between my opinion and yours, is mine is actually being put into law and is enforceable.

Something you said was naive.

While you have some intangible, unsolvable idea of how things should work.

Again, what are you even proposing here? That scaring people is good as long as it keeps them inside their house? Despite scared people doing stupid shit like drinking bleach? I guess I have to keep guessing cause you keep dodging the question.

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Not only do governments have to deal with people breaking quarantine. Hospitals have to deal with people buying out medical supplies (fear), buying food (fear), self-medicating and hurting themselves (fear).

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Also please stop using this strawman. I never said we must only use fear and not use the police, what the actual fuck

You said using fear was good. I'm pointing out using fear was bad using examples. You good?

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What you are explaining is exactly scaring them, lmao. You are not using the virus, you are using the consequences of them not obeying. You are actually saying the same thing - scare them but by using different means.

lol, there is a difference between consequences and scaring someone.

People should understand the virus is dangerous, but its unnecessary to frighten them about it.

Like how you shouldn't put your hand over the a burning stove is different from crying like a baby when you see fire.

One keeps you from thinking rationally, while the other is just plain common sense.

Also, you said this was 'naive' last I checked. So, still waiting on whatever solution you seem to have worked out in your head.

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How about you just clarify what you said instead of being so defensive? So we can stop going in circles?

You started with a strawman and you know perfectly well what I said. I never said only fear, it was your invention.

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That's what I thought we were talking about.

Apparently not, because you insinuated that what I want is for the police and the army to not be used when I never said that.

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It's happening because people are freaking out. Sweden isn't losing their shit over it. And neither is Mexico, despite it really needing to quarantine itself. Better late than never.

Yes, and if Mexico are not "losing their shit over it" as you put it they wouldn't need to constantly tighten their restrictions as they are doing. If people are as considerate as you think they are, they wouldn't need constantly daily reminder to stay the fuck inside and new restrictions to be gradually implemented.

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Measures being tightened doesn't mean most people aren't following instructions.

It means that the perceived risk outweighs the possible consequence of not enacting stricter guidelines.

For example after the New Zealand shooting there was an intense crackdown on gun laws in that country from a single incident. Not because everyone was suddenly shooting each other with guns.(most people are following the law)

I can say at least within my neighborhood block, all of us are pretty much following the quarantine to the letter and it's still gotten more restrictive in the area (I live near the elderly and a middle school).

So, yeah, not experiencing whatever you think is happening in the rest of the world.

Well, the problem here is that you consider what is happening in your neighborhood to be the norm. Its not. The first warnings were made under the assumption that people, who are told to stay 2 meters away from each other, would not go to mass gatherings. Yet they did. Because they were not told they are forbidden to. Its a way to circumvent restrictions by people who believe the epidemic is not a big deal. And by enforcing this we also enforce this behavior. If they are afraid for their lives they'd make the conscious choice to not gather together without the need to be reminded every day.

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You are going insane if this is what you think.

If I read this aloud, people would look at me like a psycho.

Thats funny considering you are ok with the sanctions. Are you a psycho too?

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The difference between my opinion and yours, is mine is actually being put into law and is enforceable.

Something you said was naive.

While you have some intangible, unsolvable idea of how things should work.

Again, what are you even proposing here? That scaring people is good as long as it keeps them inside their house? Despite scared people doing stupid shit like drinking bleach? I guess I have to keep guessing cause you keep dodging the question.

Your opinion is not the law. I am not sure where this is written. Is this a human right or something? Guess what, rules change during an emergency. The rules have changed everywhere around the world because of the virus. What we are living in right now are extraordinary times so you better get used to your old ways of thinking being questioned.

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You said using fear was good. I'm pointing out using fear was bad using examples. You good?

Yes, and I pointed out how people not leaving their homes out of their free will is good because it will free up resources and manpower.

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lol, there is a difference between consequences and scaring someone.

People should understand the virus is dangerous, but its unnecessary to frighten them about it.

Like how you shouldn't put your hand over the a burning stove is different from crying like a baby when you see fire.

One keeps you from thinking rationally, while the other is just plain common sense.

Also, you said this was 'naive' last I checked. So, still waiting on whatever solution you seem to have worked out in your head.

There is no difference. You are still afraid but but for a different reason. You want the same thing, you are just using a different way to achieve it.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Ok, looks like Mexico is stepping up. And so is the UK, which is contemplating stricter measures. Funny how this works, almost all countries which tried to act tough are now introducing lockdowns.

weve been in full lockdown for over a week at this point in the uk.


i think an issue weve had is bosses who are either wrongly feeling like theyre an essential business or refusing to accept parts of their business can be run from home. the capitalist slave drones are struggling with their programming even in the face of the government guaranteeing their wages etc if they stop working.

i have a friend who was at 38.5 temperature with a sore throat, he called in and told his work. then later after taking lemsips etc his temp was going down a bit and he was saying oh, maybe i called in too early etc im probably fine to work.... fucking hell bruv. i had to have a word with him. it doesnt matter if u feel u can do ur job if uve got symptoms u might have it and if u leave ur house and get on a bus to work, and u work in a fking school which is being used as daycare for nurses kids u nutcase, then u risk infecting others who infect others. anyone u give it to might end up in hospital, everyone who ends up in hospital might infect a nurse or doctor there which takes out a key healthworker for weeks, theyre taking up a bed which means theres less beds free for other people. now is not the time to get some guilt complex about being a good little robot.

this is what were struggling with in the uk more than anything, these kind of mindsets, people who cant switch off this mentality where theyre such a little slave to the system that they feel bad about being sick, they feel guilty like theyre doing something wrong by simply being ill. its like the old catholic guilt system where no one can avoid sinning now and then and just endlessly guilt trips themselves about it but transitioned over to the new system where the economy is god, the moral right/wrong balance is now the gdp measure, everything is judged good or bad by its effects on the nations financial growth. the indoctrination into that thinking is so hard in the uk its literally like trying to break religious conditioning at this point.

ull be fine, the virus cant survive long enough even on a hard surface to get packed in china, stored, distributed to an overseas holding, put on a ship, sailed across an ocean, unloaded, driven to a warehouse, probably split up and then distributed to another warehouse, held there and then picked, packaged for you and sent out to where u live.

the virus cant survive longer than about 3 days from what i remember, having worked in stock management for retail supply chains id be surprised if that toothbrush head was sealed in its packaging less than 10 days ago, it could be more like 20, 30+, honestly it might have been manufactured 3 months ago. the chance of it being produced 3 days ago, i cant be certain but i would think it would be 0% odds.

an overseas product probably goes though 4, 5+ warehouses before it lands on a shelf and it might only stay in one of those for 6 hours but more often itll be there for days or weeks along with days spent in transit between them.

china are now producing ventilators and ppe equipment en mass to save the failing healthcare systems in the west and those will be way hotter off the press than ur toothbrush. so if its good enough for ur local hospital ull be fine mate.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

You started with a strawman and you know perfectly well what I said.

I started by attempting to clear up what you said about countries taking more action being funny (it wasn't funny) and later went on to talk about why using fear was wrong.

I then asked you a question about why you thought fear was the only way to keep people in line, because as far as I can tell that's what you thought, and what you kept repeating in your responses.

And instead of correcting me, you dodged the question, by calling it a straw-man, and claimed that your opinion on the anything other than fear shouldn't be used in the conversation (cop-out)

So, not only did you fail to correct the misunderstanding.

IE. I don't think that fear is the only tool. I think we should also employ incentives like cash handouts or fees.

You kept repeating straw-man like some howling child, without explaining why it was wrong.

And as far as I can tell.

You have other opinions on how things should be done, but can't put it into a words.

(Or more likely you are just being paranoid and didn't actually think of any other reasons)

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I never said only fear, it was your invention.

Or you're being paranoid. How is anyone suppose to know when you act so squirrely when asked about what you think?

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Apparently not, because you insinuated that what I want is for the police and the army to not be used when I never said that.

No, I'm insinuating that you're acting like a hypocrite when you call something naive, and can't actually explain a better alternative.

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Yes, and if Mexico are not "losing their shit over it" as you put it they wouldn't need to constantly tighten their restrictions as they are doing. If people are as considerate as you think they are, they wouldn't need constantly daily reminder to stay the fuck inside and new restrictions to be gradually implemented.

That is not what is happening. Mexico is tightening their restrictions because they had little to no restrictions before are now imposing some, due to advice from WHO and other World Leaders.

Most notably somewhat related to the increased of cases the United States, which is now has the highest number of patients as of this date. So, it'd make some sense to impose some restrictions seeing as your neighbor suddenly got hit hard with the disease.

Previously, their President was under the impression that it'd blow over, and it didn't. So most people were still under the idea that it wasn't necessary to quarantine.

It's not that people weren't being considerate before. They were told things were fine by their government so most people continued going out and only recently began imposing stricter restrictions due to pressure.

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Well, the problem here is that you consider what is happening in your neighborhood to be the norm. Its not.

That's not what I'm doing here.

And I'm not going to call you out on your 'straw-man' here without actually explaining why its wrong.

What I'm saying is that you can only know with some level of certainty your immediate surroundings and that is more important to actually pay attention to what is actually happening vs anecdotal evidence you hear on the news.

Because many things get distorted when people play up their worst fears and if you are solely focused on the problem being worse, you can imagine things happening that aren't actually true.

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If they are afraid for their lives they'd make the conscious choice to not gather together without the need to be reminded every day.

People shouldn't be afraid of their lives.

Fear makes people do stupid things and that being calm and informed is the correct way to deal with a crisis.

You are focusing on a small minority going out and breaking the law and projecting wildly unfounded claims about people's behavior.

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Thats funny considering you are ok with the sanctions. Are you a psycho too?

I'm referring to what you actually said.

Which was along the lines of...You can't beg them to stop or they will kill their family members.

I mean do you sound rational, clear-headed, and stable here?

No, you do not. You sound like a psycho.

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Your opinion is not the law.

Well, seeing as people are getting arrested for breaking quarantine and there are fines for staying out past curfew. It appears my opinion is law. lmao.

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I am not sure where this is written. Is this a human right or something? Guess what, rules change during an emergency. The rules have changed everywhere around the world because of the virus. What we are living in right now are extraordinary times so you better get used to your old ways of thinking being questioned.

Look, you are free to think whatever you want but just don't expect most people to pay attention, when you start talking like a hobo.

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There is no difference. You are still afraid but but for a different reason. You want the same thing, you are just using a different way to achieve it.

Uh, I guess this is what you would call hypnotism or something.

Oh, no. I'm getting mind-controlled. I'm becoming afraaaid, but but only for a different reason. I want the same thing...My will is fading...

Pfft. Haha.

What is even going on here.

^You know, the back and forth between you two is hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. :D

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Exile009 wrote:

^You know, the back and forth between you two is hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. :D

I grabbed my popcorn long time ago, I almost spilled my drink after strawman comment... I hope our fabulous moderators don’t lock this thread lol... Super entertaining.

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china are now producing ventilators and ppe equipment en mass to save the failing healthcare systems in the west and those will be way hotter off the press than ur toothbrush. so if its good enough for ur local hospital ull be fine mate.

Except the things they are sending are apparently faulty and their goal is to brag about how much they help rather than actually helping. Same as Russia.

u sure thats not propaganda on our side of the divide?

made in china stuff is so mass produced youre always gonna get some level of inconsistency in construction standards, esp stuff rushed out the door like this.

ultimately china want to be friends with the west, they want to get along with us, trade with us, co-exist peacefully with us. the west doesnt agree, especially america. america needs enemies and it will stop at nothing to make china the next one now that the old propaganda about russia has worn hollow.