Corona virus

That's fine, my concern is with posting actual facts here that line up with reality so people visiting this thread are actually helped out with solid information.

So im going to go with a "nope" on your claim.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : none of this implies regular healthy people aren't disease vektors that spread it and should behave as if they are.

I think that much is obvious for sensible people.

This also doesn't mean healthy people cannot die due to complications because there is no capacity in the health system.
But that isn't a mortality due to the virus directly, but due to lack of care.

One of the main reasons the mortality rate in italy is 8% is because of this later part and its the main reason for lockdown strategies which people should follow if they want their death toll to remain between 1% and 3.4%.

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Boem wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Another: there is absolutely no indication as to who will not suffer from it. That is to say, perfectly healthy people have now died from it. We know conditions that put people at high-risk of serious infection (seniors, weak immune system, lung issues, heart issues, blood pressure issues, etc) but we do not know the opposite. So I hate to say it but whoever is reading this CAN die from it without proper medical attention. You might not, but you might. And are you really willing to fuck with that roll of the dice?

I'm going to need a source for this that isn't just smoke.

Current figures comming in from italy show that 99% of the people that died had high blood pressure conditions.(this isn't age restrictive, but it does imply co-morbidy)

I would need to see your source and verify its accuracy before im willing to adopt your claim, because it isn't remotely backed up by any current conclusions from people going over the reported cases currently.

Peace,

-Boem-

How about this guy here in the UK - 28 year old professional footballer who would have died without hospital treatment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51995137

Oh, look, someone who hasn't yet figured out what I have giving it a go. How splendid. :)

And now that he's tried, I'm obliged to provide a little more. Well, luckily this won't take much effort.

First: the crux here is what do we mean by 'perfectly healthy'? Is anyone perfectly healthy? Perfectly 'anything'? Of course not. But in this case, let's go with 'no obvious underlying or chronic health issues'. Plenty of people have been killed by Covid-19 or Covid-19-related complications who fall under that category. Note also that the Covid-19-related complication is probably the bigger threat right now, being pneumonia. And again, we have people who are 'at risk' for a coronavirus developing into pneumonia. No news there. But can our formerly defined people developed pneumonia from a coronavirus? Of course.

So why is this different to normal pneumonia? So glad you asked.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-what-happens-to-peoples-lungs-if-they-get-covid-19

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Jenkins says Covid-19 pneumonia is different from the most common cases that people are admitted to hospitals for.

“Most types of pneumonia that we know of and that we admit people to hospital for are bacterial and they respond to an antibiotic.

Wilson says there is evidence that pneumonia caused by Covid-19 may be particularly severe. Wilson says cases of coronavirus pneumonia tend to affect all of the lungs, instead of just small parts.

As for whether 'perfectly healthy' people can develop a life-threatening Covid-19 pneumonia:

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“It’s important to remember that no matter how healthy and active you are, your risk for getting pneumonia increases with age. This is because our immune system naturally weakens with age, making it harder for our bodies to fight off infections and diseases.”

And this comes back to the ICU/bed issue. You might develop pneumonia normally and not only will it respond to antibiotics, you'll be able to recover in hospital. Not so in a time of pandemic: those beds are going to be flooded with Covid-19 pneumonia patients needing the exact same thing you will, should you develop Covid-19 pneumonia. Which, as shown above, you can. Do so, fail to get a hospital bed due to overwhelming demand, fail to prevent the pneumonia from damaging your lungs, fail to get onto a ventilator...quite possibly fail to recover, period.

Further reading (rather humorous):

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/21/how-does-the-covid-19-coronavirus-kill-what-happens-when-you-get-infected/#62cc2d966146

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All of the estimates so far remain far above the case fatality rates for seasonal influenza, which tends to be below 0.1%. This new coronavirus may have some similarities to the flu virus in that it is a respiratory virus and can kill you. But it is not the flu. Second verse same as the first, SARS-CoV2 am not the flu. The flu SARS-CoV2 is not. It is indeed something completely new and very different. And that’s the problem.

Finally:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-03-18/coronavirus-covid-younger-people-also-risk-serious-illness-death/12059326

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Bruce Aylward, who led the World Health Organisation's recent mission to assess the pandemic in China, said his team found there had been many deaths in people without other health conditions, and in people decades younger than the groups deemed most at risk.

And my concluding question to anyone still doubting: Just how certain are you that you fall under the low-to-no-risk category, if that category isn't even conclusive yet? Do you get regular thorough physicals? Do you honestly believe your body is working at peak performance at your age, having lived the life you've lived? More power to you if you think so, but that's not a gamble I'd recommend.

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RandallPOE wrote:

How about this guy here in the UK - 28 year old professional footballer who would have died without hospital treatment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51995137

Read my edit.

There is a difference between dying due to complications and lack of care and being a "critical corona" patient for which no medical intervention can help you.

Charan for example would fall in that later category and so do co-morbidy elderly people.(going of the current released data)

Peace,

-Boem-

You have to take into consideration how dense the population is and how rural some countries are.

Most cities in Russia belong to rather rural regions. There are only 4 areas you would consider as metropolitan area.

The worst affected regions in several countries are metropolitan areas.

Not every big city is automatically affected.


EG you will have couple of hundred cases at worst in states like Alaska/Wyoming.

Every highly populated state on the east and west coast on the other hand is in grave danger.


When it comes to countries lying about numbers expect China(they lie about 1989), Japan(Olympic Games) and Turkey(Erdogan)

Other countries lack doctors like Poland, are pretty poor and so on they cannot deliver accurate numbers.

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And it's going to last months.

Only if there aren't multiple waves. The virus could mutate to the better or worse and lockdowns lifted too early.

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The Dow Jones having worst month since 1931.

The US economy will collapse.

You are wrong, Hilbert. My isolation will last months because I'm not going back out there until there's a known, working vaccine. That is my choice as a high-risk person who doesn't trust other people not to be inconsiderate jerks. Given the recent evidence, I feel my mistrust is well-placed.

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Boem wrote:

But that isn't a mortality due to the virus directly, but due to lack of care.

https://www.britannica.com/science/case-fatality-rate

Pretty much every health care worker would call what you said, rather charitably, 'splitting hairs'.

Then again, I doubt any health care worker would take you seriously anyway. You have the luxury of being a computer chair critic, which renders your opinion on the definition of the Case Fatality Rate pretty much worthless. They do not have that luxury, which renders their opinion on the CFR far more valuable. They have something to lose.

If someone dies with Covid-19 and otherwise wouldn't have died, then they died from Covid-19, effectively. Whether they received care or not. Those straws you're grasping at? Stop.

And yes, this is your 1-monthly direct quote-and-response from me. I hope you appreciate it.

That's a really magic wand though. The machine must keep running; deliveries made; doctors researching; and so on. But it's interesting because it shows just how drastic a move would be requires to kill the thing off and even then it would take TWO WEEKS at the very least.

Two weeks in a miraculous situation. And we are far, far from that miraculous situation.

Yeah, and Wuhan took 2 months of that shutdown to get it under control. They also built huge clinics and centres in a matter of days, smartly keeping Covid-19 patients well away from normal hospitals where possible. Again, not something you'll see in so-called first world countries.

In fact, I think one of the huge lingering effects of Covid-19 will be an upending of the long-held beliefs of what makes a country 'first world' and what makes a country 'third world', or as we say now, 'developed' vs 'developing'. The reality checks are going to be, well, real.

Not sure we can really call it a cure. More like an expulsion. A starvation. Throwing it out the airlock into a void that cannot sustain it. A cure, after all, implies the direct application of something to counteract its presence. This would be more removing something. Everything.

But practically? Sure, we could call that a cure, the same way you could call burning someone's house while they're not home an encouragement for domestic relocation.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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Boem wrote:

But that isn't a mortality due to the virus directly, but due to lack of care.

https://www.britannica.com/science/case-fatality-rate

Pretty much every health care worker would call what you said, rather charitably, 'splitting hairs'.

Then again, I doubt any health care worker would take you seriously anyway. You have the luxury of being a computer chair critic, which renders your opinion on the definition of the Case Fatality Rate pretty much worthless. They do not have that luxury, which renders their opinion on the CFR far more valuable. They have something to lose.

If someone dies with Covid-19 and otherwise wouldn't have died, then they died from Covid-19, effectively. Whether they received care or not. Those straws you're grasping at? Stop.

And yes, this is your 1-monthly direct quote-and-response from me. I hope you appreciate it.

I'm not splitting hairs, it's the difference between social issolation and lock down with a 3% tops mortality rate and an italy scenario where the current mortality rate is at 8% last i checked.

In case you haven't noticed, all of my arguments strengthen your possition.

Can healthy people survive? Yes they can if there is sufficient icu and health-care capability present.
Is this a feasable scenario without a lockdown event? Pretty much, nope.

Im simply also taking into account the economical impact long term which as far as i can tell you seem to ignore completely in favor of protecting yourself. Which in itself is fair game considering your condition, but that doesn't mean it isn't a topic being debated and discussed in the world right now.

As for the monthly quote thing, similar to impeacher his comments that amount to smelling your farts and painting bulls-eyes on people he disagree's with, i don't particularly care.
You haven't posted anything that contradicts me, so it still remains a "nope".

Considering current favored strategies only country's that are late to the party are going to exceed the 3.4% mortality rate and have healthy people at risk of corona.
Not disputing the fact that healthy people who survive the virus can have diminished long capacity etc which should also be taken into account as a serious effect.

In case of america and australia where you recide, yes healthy people are very much at risk due to a lack of response from the goverment.
Not by the virus, but by the lack of health-care preperations to handle the influx putting people at risk who under normal conditions could be helped.

The "splitting hairs" your talking about is actually one of your strongest arguments to push the healthy people to act in your favor.
Because the less they react to the situation the higher their mortality rate becomes.

Your welcome.

Peace,

-Boem-