Incinerate

"

Assuming you have 0% Increased Shock Duration, yes. Thunderfists are really cool, and the Static Blows cluster also grants a good chunk of Shock Duration.

I'd say that is rather deceptive. Even with static blows, you are limited by the shock mechanism. P is an integer in their equation and GGG says it always rounds down. In addition, your shock has to last for at least 0.3 seconds for it ever to occur. That means you always have to hit for at least 1% of your target's life in order to have any chance at actually shocking, regardless of your shock chance (even if your chance to shock was 100%).

There is actually almost no practical benefit to "increased shock duration" nodes, including those by Static Blows. Let's say for example you have 100% chance to shock, but your damage is always less than 1% of your enemy's life:

P = N ÷ ( L ÷ 100 ) and 0 < P < 1 so P is rounded down to 0. Shocking never occurs.

Now let's say you take all those shock passives and wear the unique glove. You get 135% increased duration and a 20% chance to shock. In this case, let's say your your lightning damage is 1.9% of your enemy's life AND you got lucky and rolled a shock on your first hit:

P = N ÷ ( L ÷ 100 ) and 1 < P < 2 so P is rounded down to 1. Shocking occurs.
D = P × 276ms × I. P =1 and I = 2.35. Your shock duration (D) is 0.648 seconds.
Without any increased attack speed, incinerate hits every 0.24 seconds, so you get to hit twice more during this initial shock. Your odds of shocking again after this (double stacking), are 1-[(1-0.8)*(1-0.8)] = 0.36%, but remember your odds of shock in the first place were only 20%, so the actual odds of a double stack occurring in game play (assuming 3 shots) are 10.4% of the time. Triple stacking will not occur.

You can help your chances with increased cast speed, but not dramatically.

I have some issue understanding how incinerate works with "added X damage" gems and Infernal Mantle (the conversion part) relating to the "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage".

Do the "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for all damage (add gems and converted damage) or not ?

Example w/ "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for the conversion part of Infernal Mantle :
Incinerate w/ phase 0 = 100 fire damage
w/ Infernal Mantle = 75 fire + 25 chaos
w/ phase 3 incinerate = 300 fire damage + 100 chaos damage

Example w/ "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for added chaos damage gem :
Incinerate w/ phase 0 = 100 fire damage
w/ Added chaos gem = 100 fire damage + 50 chaos damage
w/ phase 3 incinerate = 400 fire damage + 200 chaos damage



Am I right or not ?


Edit : the value of incinerate and added chaos damage gem chosen on my examples are wrong for the sake of clarity

The ramp up mechanic and why it has to go or be substantially reduced.

With the way the game is evolving the mechanic of ramp up time is becoming more and more of a disadvantage. Changing the skill to adapt to the evolution of the game is by far more viable than adapting the game to fit one skill.

Disadvantages Incinerate suffers due to the ramp up time:

• Ranged monsters fleeing and it's lack of cooldown forces you to either only hit with one projectile or constantly reset you stacks.
• Temporal chains increases ramp up time making it a harsher penalty for Incinerate than other abilities (Flame blast being the exception).
• Group play viability at end game being very low due to the fast paced nature of other builds making you only ever reach stage three on rares and bosses. Most groups wouldn't take you unless you provide enough utility to justify your spot through that.
• Birdmen...while I think their AI needs to be completely re-worked as the way they are now they literally make me want to quit mapping when I encounter them. Having to reset your stacks to chase after each mob individually while being bombarded causes a frustration that words can't describe.
• Silence curse, I really don't know what you were thinking with this one, resetting your stacks at a regular interval while making you unable to cast at all is punishing towards incinerate more than any other ability in game. No other curse completely disables attacking while at the same time reduces damage output by two thirds...
• Encounter design. Many new encounter designs relies heavily on movement which puts Incinerate users at a distinct disadvantage, Atziri and her generals, Dominus, Trapper bosses and so on.
• Inability to use defensive skills without resetting stack like Immortal call and Enduring cry. The original design of CwDT did resolve this issue but with the changes to it the problem persists.
• Inability to curse without resetting stacks. Was hoping Curse on hit would be a global support gem for curses and as such fix this but with it's current design the problem persists.
• Narrow passages, Shipyard being a prime example, where Incinerate won't hit at all or just hit for a few seconds to then do no damage where you have to reposition your self thus resetting stacks. Doorways have the same issue where your damage only works for so long before you have to move.
• Random objects like trees and pillars, Courtyard and Bazaar being prime examples, where monsters run behind or stand to the side of where Incinerate won't work properly or have to reposition to hit behind. Again forcing resets of your stacks.

I'm sure I forgot a few reasons but the list is long enough to make my point. While some of these issues have reasonable counter arguments on their own but when combining all the issues those arguments quickly become moot in my opinion.

"

Redblade wrote:

Spoiler

The ramp up mechanic and why it has to go or be substantially reduced.

With the way the game is evolving the mechanic of ramp up time is becoming more and more of a disadvantage. Changing the skill to adapt to the evolution of the game is by far more viable than adapting the game to fit one skill.

Disadvantages Incinerate suffers due to the ramp up time:

• Ranged monsters fleeing and it's lack of cooldown forces you to either only hit with one projectile or constantly reset you stacks.
• Temporal chains increases ramp up time making it a harsher penalty for Incinerate than other abilities (Flame blast being the exception).
• Group play viability at end game being very low due to the fast paced nature of other builds making you only ever reach stage three on rares and bosses. Most groups wouldn't take you unless you provide enough utility to justify your spot through that.
• Birdmen...while I think their AI needs to be completely re-worked as the way they are now they literally make me want to quit mapping when I encounter them. Having to reset your stacks to chase after each mob individually while being bombarded causes a frustration that words can't describe.
• Silence curse, I really don't know what you were thinking with this one, resetting your stacks at a regular interval while making you unable to cast at all is punishing towards incinerate more than any other ability in game. No other curse completely disables attacking while at the same time reduces damage output by two thirds...
• Encounter design. Many new encounter designs relies heavily on movement which puts Incinerate users at a distinct disadvantage, Atziri and her generals, Dominus, Trapper bosses and so on.
• Inability to use defensive skills without resetting stack like Immortal call and Enduring cry. The original design of CwDT did resolve this issue but with the changes to it the problem persists.
• Inability to curse without resetting stacks. Was hoping Curse on hit would be a global support gem for curses and as such fix this but with it's current design the problem persists.
• Narrow passages, Shipyard being a prime example, where Incinerate won't hit at all or just hit for a few seconds to then do no damage where you have to reposition your self thus resetting stacks. Doorways have the same issue where your damage only works for so long before you have to move.
• Random objects like trees and pillars, Courtyard and Bazaar being prime examples, where monsters run behind or stand to the side of where Incinerate won't work properly or have to reposition to hit behind. Again forcing resets of your stacks.

I'm sure I forgot a few reasons but the list is long enough to make my point. While some of these issues have reasonable counter arguments on their own but when combining all the issues those arguments quickly become moot in my opinion.

I have a 84 level witch and by a real game experience... I must say that all points above are totally valid. Just can't use my curse, the skill needs more adaptation.

It is fun to use it as main attack, but there is a lot of times when it is more frustrating that joy-able.

"

CAncun wrote:

I have some issue understanding how incinerate works with "added X damage" gems and Infernal Mantle (the conversion part) relating to the "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage".

Do the "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for all damage (add gems and converted damage) or not ?

Example w/ "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for the conversion part of Infernal Mantle :
Incinerate w/ phase 0 = 100 fire damage
w/ Infernal Mantle = 75 fire + 25 chaos
w/ phase 3 incinerate = 300 fire damage + 100 chaos damage

Example w/ "Adds 100% more Damage for each stage" apply for added chaos damage gem :
Incinerate w/ phase 0 = 100 fire damage
w/ Added chaos gem = 100 fire damage + 50 chaos damage
w/ phase 3 incinerate = 400 fire damage + 200 chaos damage



Am I right or not ?


Edit : the value of incinerate and added chaos damage gem chosen on my examples are wrong for the sake of clarity

I want to know this as well. With infernal mantle is not a problem, since it converts your fire damage, the stage buff applies before and then it gets converted. But with added chaos I don't really know, and there isn't a perfect way to see if it works or not.
Edit: Just tested a lvl 1 Incinerate with a lvl 19 added chaos, and the damage increased substantially each stage, so I believe it works the second way.

i have a build planned and was not planning to use cybils paw. with the nerf to leech, is incinerate still viable for end game? would taking vaal pact allow leeching of all shotgunned damage?

been away a while and would appreciate any feedback!

After finally getting a Mortal Hope on my 97th Atziri kill I got to try über and I can only say the experience only enhances my complaint above. The generals, a fight which requires Enduring Cry + Immortal Call, was rendered almost impossible due to the stationary nature of the skill. While it might be possible, I failed, the fight will be painfully long.

I can get my Immortal Call to 8 seconds where one is spent getting charges back and another making sure I can get Immortal call off in time. Three seconds to ramp up Incinerate and you have a full three seconds left at full DPS. This is of course if the mob doesn't move (Titty Bitch) or the ground is covered in something (Cycloner) you need to move out of in which case you're dealing no dps at all.

A horrible waste of 15 exalts figuring out I need to spend 125+ exalts going cookie cutter low life ST which seems to be about the only reliable über build...so much for build diversity.