Incinerate

You guys must be talking about close to end game viability then. On both my 60ish shadow crit caster and now on my new 35 templar fire caster I blow incin out of the water with both fireball and firestorm. The real test will come when I have bloodmagic and can start putting in the good supports etc. Course...those same supports can be used on the other two spells to. I'm hoping, we'll see!

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trenan wrote:

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Draftbeer wrote:

I don't see incinerate benefit from "+added whatever damage" supports,
the 20% damage effectiveness pretty much negates that.

Spoiler

You would be incredibly wrong about added damage. Not sure why people think the 20% efficiency is a big deal. Incinerate already has very low base damage, Added chaos damage gem is the equivalent of doubling the DPS of incinerate, since they will end up with the same amount of damage in the end.

It also allows you to bypass resist specific mobs, ie: fire resist, which is rampant in the game.

It also allows for shocks(and yes, you can achieve shocks at high levels).

I agree, GMP/LMP are not helpful, nor do I think shotgun even works properly like everyone thinks.

Putting incinerate on a totem is also bad form, anything that reduces incinerates base damage is incredibly detrimental to the skill.

40% less damage on it when its at 100 base damage, so... it now hits for 60ish damage(400 dps loss), not including resists. and say it casts at .09 a second, even getting +5 damage on it would increase it by nearly 60 dps(this also applies to removing 5 damage). Considering you could get an added lightning gem in there which can push close to +50-60 damage with passives, ur looking at atleast 600 dps added to the spell. Where as, fire pen, would bump the 100 fire damage a tick to maybe an extra 30.

or you could use elmenetal weakness, and push BOTH the fire and lightning damage higher, resulting in even greater DPS. Consider 120% damage from shocks.....

Probably because it is, at least if we are talking about triggering
elemental status alignments.

I disagree, two totems can easily make up the base damage loss, no mana investment,
also you don't have to build that tanky and can focus on more damage. Skeletons and
frost wall can take care of the rest, totems are up in full duration most of the time.
Oh and while channeling incinerate it's not possible to deploy fire traps unless you
want to lose stages.

I'm still sceptic about shock stacks, want a video or something on 70+ maps.

It might be that I lack static blows with added lightning but for the hell of it I wanted to see what the damage would be like If I replaced GMP with added cold.

The damage was much worse in my case.

It's hard to tell if incinerate is balanced or not, but you defintely have to make a build that's based around the skill. I.E. a very tanky build with tons of mana regen/health regen if blood magic. You also probably can't use crazy supports like GMP, but that is a good thing, why should GMP be used on every skill?

I am currently working on an high strength, high health, health regen, unwavering stance, righteous fire mage-templar, and going to use the Saffel's Frame 5% max resist shield along with a ruby flask to keep RF up in HC.

The advatange: Theoretically, i should have 99% fire resist(purity, Safell's, elemental adaptation, inner force), making RF do a merely 1.3% of my life per second(due to inner force) allowing me to add another 100% more damage to the final stage of incinerate, making it do, probably, the most damage anything can do in the game.

My goal about 6-6.5k+ health, 6%+ h/s(vitality) and Plate armor.

With this high resist build, ill be at 89% normally, i don't even need to worry about magic.

I'll use support gems that don't destroy my mana i.e. Iron Will, mana leech, and Blind or Knockback because I only need to worry about physical damage.

Basically, I will cast Righteous Fire, And start channeling Incinerate, the melee mobs that come close will quickly die from righteous fire(3k dps), while the range will die soon to incinerate with the insane dps the skill will put out with all these buffs. With unwavering stance nothing can stop the channeling of Incinerate, and no block recovery either.

My build has a total of 27% reduced mana from passives, which will hopefully allow me to sustain Incinerate with clarity (i won't have EB).

My auras would be: Purity, Vitality, Determination, Clarity, I will have the 20% mana reserve passives too, or maybe I could blood magic Clarity, I have to test it out.

If mana becomes unsustainable no matter what, then I will attempt to use incinerate with blood magic gem and lifeleech.

This is my build at 96 points. For gear i Will defeintely want, projectile speed, health,
armor, mana regen, spell damage. The cool thing is, with incinerate, you dont need crit!
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUBAecCcQSzBS0FWwx9EH8TWxQgFE0ZLhmFGjgaVRpsJIskqiftKS4pTzB1Nug26TrYPAU9
Dz38RmlG103YUEdQUFRJValV1lcNWGNYr18_YEtgbWCIYSFhUmSjZOdwu3Tteu98uHy7ffWBb4KbgziE7
4uMjHaMz5BVl7SazJ2Ana6ePJ7Nn8uf36IApwinMKeErLq4k7ndxBXE9saextjSIdSP2WHa3eFz4drjau
Qi51LsOO0g7w7vfPIv8932SPba

Other stuff to take maybe: 0.4% regen nodes at duelist, endurance charges can be good since incinerate requires you to stand still in front of the enemy... I guess you could also go for EB at very high lvl like 90 to help sustain mana and use more costly support gems(not that its needed)

I am currently using Freezing Pulse to level up (50 atm) Because - If anything - I think the manacost of the skill should be lower early levels, and stay the same higher levels, I can't seem to level up using incinerate, I've even tried Blood Magic + Life Leech + high health regen + vitality, forget it.

Also wanted to add, if anyone is lucky enough to get their hands on the new CI-like ES unique chest, then a similar lowlife build but low health/health regen and more damage + pain attunement would be sick.

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Lionguild wrote:

It might be that I lack static blows with added lightning but for the hell of it I wanted to see what the damage would be like If I replaced GMP with added cold.

The damage was much worse in my case.

This only works really well if you have static blows and increased cold damage. Also elemental weakness is pretty big. Flammability isn't useful since it makes most mobs just run away from incinerate.

Because Cold gem has a higher bottom-end damage range, it actually is more DPS than added lightning, if you do not having static blows.

Cold is like 20-35 mid ranks, lighting is like 2-47. Since at anytime you could possibly roll 1 lightning damage, whereas with cold its guaranteed to be like 15+.

"

Draftbeer wrote:

"

trenan wrote:

"

Draftbeer wrote:

I don't see incinerate benefit from "+added whatever damage" supports,
the 20% damage effectiveness pretty much negates that.

Spoiler

You would be incredibly wrong about added damage. Not sure why people think the 20% efficiency is a big deal. Incinerate already has very low base damage, Added chaos damage gem is the equivalent of doubling the DPS of incinerate, since they will end up with the same amount of damage in the end.

It also allows you to bypass resist specific mobs, ie: fire resist, which is rampant in the game.

It also allows for shocks(and yes, you can achieve shocks at high levels).

I agree, GMP/LMP are not helpful, nor do I think shotgun even works properly like everyone thinks.

Putting incinerate on a totem is also bad form, anything that reduces incinerates base damage is incredibly detrimental to the skill.

40% less damage on it when its at 100 base damage, so... it now hits for 60ish damage(400 dps loss), not including resists. and say it casts at .09 a second, even getting +5 damage on it would increase it by nearly 60 dps(this also applies to removing 5 damage). Considering you could get an added lightning gem in there which can push close to +50-60 damage with passives, ur looking at atleast 600 dps added to the spell. Where as, fire pen, would bump the 100 fire damage a tick to maybe an extra 30.

or you could use elmenetal weakness, and push BOTH the fire and lightning damage higher, resulting in even greater DPS. Consider 120% damage from shocks.....

Probably because it is, at least if we are talking about triggering
elemental status alignments.

I disagree, two totems can easily make up the base damage loss, no mana investment,
also you don't have to build that tanky and can focus on more damage. Skeletons and
frost wall can take care of the rest, totems are up in full duration most of the time.
Oh and while channeling incinerate it's not possible to deploy fire traps unless you
want to lose stages.

I'm still sceptic about shock stacks, want a video or something on 70+ maps.

The reason you are sceptical is because you do not realize the 4 stage increase in damage also applies to added damage gems, it does not apply to fire pen, does not apply to lmp/gmp, does not apply to ANYTHING but "added damage"

After recent testing, it is most likely the 80% increased damage is stacking multiplicatively and seperately, this means the damage increase is roughly 5 times the base damage listed in the tooltip.

As I mentioned, if your lightning gem is listed at 60 top end damage(which is possible), it will end up with 300 damage at stage 4. This is enough to shock 30,000 hp mobs, which is plenty for level 70 maps.

Instead of running Incinerate as a face tank with life leech, what do you guys think about using minions as meat shields and getting as much projectile speed as possible to give incinerate a good range?

Would need dual wands with faster projectile (obviously also with as much other caster stats as you can get too). Quality Incinerate and using the fast projectiles support gem?

I'm doing the face tank thing right now and it's extremely annoying to have ranged monsters just run away from me mid incinerate.

"

Lionguild wrote:

Instead of running Incinerate as a face tank with life leech, what do you guys think about using minions as meat shields and getting as much projectile speed as possible to give incinerate a good range?

Would need dual wands with faster projectile (obviously also with as much other caster stats as you can get too). Quality Incinerate and using the fast projectiles support gem?

I'm doing the face tank thing right now and it's extremely annoying to have ranged monsters just run away from me mid incinerate.

After about 80% projectile speed, incinerate starts to have alot of side to side movement, making it harder to hit stuff at the very edge of its range.

It would work, but you will begin to notice 1/2 the incinerates miss towards the end of its distance.

Just wish this had at least 1% critical strike chance, even 0.5% or 0.1% would be fine. Then maybe people will stop saying Flame Totem does everything better (which it does, since it can crit and LMP/GMP is easier to shotgun with on it than Incinerate)