-20% exp on death needed

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marmax#7525 wrote:

10% and 20% is a big difference. A player can gain 1% - 5% experience leveling from 99 to 100 every map on average. Losing 10% on death still seems punishing.

10% really isn’t much, even at level 99. And deaths usually aren’t some random unavoidable thing either, most of the time it comes down to bad play, bad decisions, or a build with weak defenses getting its cheeks slapped once the content actually fights back. You make that exp back pretty fast anyway, 2-3 maps and the loss is already gone.

If someone is dying often enough for 10% to feel punishing, then they probably aren’t ready for that content in the first place. Level 99 could straight up be a 100% exp loss on death and it still wouldn’t feel unreasonable.

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Having a properly optimized character doesn't prevent you to get one-shot by some random soul eater that suddenly jumps from off-screen and attacks you billion times per second. And I think that you greatly overestimate what an average player is. Average player doesn't have mageblood, svalinn, or perfectly crafted rare gear first month of the league.

It definitely does matter, because otherwise how do players without a Mageblood or Svalinn still reach level 100? Having a well optimized character isn’t just about owning perfect best in slot gear.

A lot of it comes down to layering some defenses, balancing your DPS output with your durability, and understanding the content you’re running. Of course a character with basically no defensive layers, or just a single weak one, is eventually going to get shredded once the difficulty reaches a point where raw DPS alone stops carrying the build.

So the excuse about the average player lacking currency doesn’t really hold much value, especially when level 100 is fully achievable on shoelace-tier gear if there’s at least some optimization and thought put into the build instead of the pure greed of wanting to push max content on a build that only works because it stacks DPS, with the downside of getting its ass cheeks clamped the moment monsters actually start fighting back.

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-10% penalty solves the problem then? If you want to reach level 100 you won't be corpse rushing neither way.

Corpse rushing is still a problem in this game and honestly something that should’ve been addressed a long time ago. Thankfully it’s probably only a matter of time before PoE2’s portal system makes it's way into PoE1 as well, for pretty obvious reasons.

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PoE 1 and Poe 2 are significantly different games, and for a reason. PoE 1 is faster, and more focused on blasting content with overpowered builds, hence the "weak" -10% death penalty. PoE 2 is slower, more complex and punishing, with mechanics as parry, manual block, nearly non-existent charge generation and only one portal on endgame maps.

Not quite true, both games honestly feel pretty similar at their core. You pick the build you want to play, blast through maps, kill bosses, and scale your character further and further. The actual gameplay loop and overall pace are a lot closer to PoE1 than people like to pretend.

PoE2 mainly added the portal change because the devs clearly wanted an extra layer of punishment for dying while also preventing corpse rushing from remaining a thing. And honestly, that’s something PoE1 would benefit from a lot as well.

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Perhaps you should play PoE 2 instead of trying to change PoE 1 into something that PoE 2 does great already. Those who enjoy "easier" and less punishing gameplay can still play PoE 1 that way.

Or you know, I can just play both games and keep giving my feedback, regardless of whether people agree with it or not.

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Ultimatelly this thread is just ragebait and I hope GGG knows that and doesn't change the game for worse.

Something people disagree with isn’t automatically rage bait. The idea that PoE1’s death penalty is outdated and too forgiving has been around for a long time at this point, so people arguing for a harsher system usually aren’t trying to farm reactions, they’re just giving feedback they genuinely think would improve the game.

GGG already seems to agree to some extent, considering PoE2 clearly moved toward making deaths more punishing while also limiting corpse rushing. That direction didn’t happen by accident. It’s probably only a matter of time before PoE1 eventually adopts something closer to modern standards as well.
The current 10% penalty also comes from a very different era of PoE, back when sustaining maps was actually difficult and progression was far slower overall. Nowadays people oversustain maps while clearing them at ridiculous speed, so even at level 99 a death is just a few minutes of lost progress before you’re right back where you were, even less on lower levels.

Current game design is to deal enough dmg to ignore boss mechanics.
The biggest defensive layer is damage.

As for death penalty ? Its stupid and unfun.

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Current game design is to deal enough dmg to ignore boss mechanics.
The biggest defensive layer is damage.

As for death penalty ? Its stupid and unfun.

YEP exactly this

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Current game design is to deal enough dmg to ignore boss mechanics.
The biggest defensive layer is damage.

As for death penalty ? Its stupid and unfun.

YEP exactly this

Doesn't seem to work that well if the death penalty is still a problem despite having access to plenty of damage. Realistically, the penalty needs to be much higher as a wake up call so people stop baiting themselves into the just build damage mindset, and end up with heavily unoptimized characters because of the tunnel vision on damage alone, even though defensive layers exist for a reason, to prevent or mitigate damage and therefore stop deaths from happening in the first place.

This game is in dire need of a more meaningful death penalty, 20% exp lose at least followed up with PoE2's portal system~

Death shmenalty,
when you are at 0% exp, or at 100lvl, there is no death penalty...

what now ?

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Death shmenalty,
when you are at 0% exp, or at 100lvl, there is no death penalty...

what now ?

You’ve basically beaten the game, no kidding. Nah, even at level 100 the death penalty still exists in the form of losing portals. Level 100 alone doesn’t suddenly make you immune to deaths.

That’s why the PoE2 portal system would fit pretty well into PoE1.
Juicy T16 map? Don't die or it’s goodbye map. Throw in the 20% death penalty on top and the game would be in a much better spot.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Henide#3803 wrote:

Death shmenalty,
when you are at 0% exp, or at 100lvl, there is no death penalty...

what now ?

You’ve basically beaten the game, no kidding. Nah, even at level 100 the death penalty still exists in the form of losing portals. Level 100 alone doesn’t suddenly make you immune to deaths.

That’s why the PoE2 portal system would fit pretty well into PoE1.
Juicy T16 map? Don't die or it’s goodbye map. Throw in the 20% death penalty on top and the game would be in a much better spot.

lmao, you still think poe2 portal system is one portal per map?

i want to give my honest opinion about why i dont care about the penalty anymore at all, not because 5way services (i dont use them) but because as soon as my build works and i adjust the maps so i can gain exp without dying, this didnt really work on the exsang miner last league i got stuck at lvl 99 and it was allready unfun running sanctums all the time. losing 10% doesnt add anything to the game even though i got a little bit more experienced in the game and yes i was crapping on this mechanic few years ago and my opinion about it didnt change at all. i got on banned for so many times only because i got ragebaited into these discussions and how we should absolutely change it to "pc explodes when you die in poe"

it wouldnt bother me if there wont be any exp penalty anymore because i think it adds nothing to the experience more so it just adds frustration, it just shows your build is bad and no matter how much you invest into it, it wont get either tankier nor wont it get any better in any other way

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exsea#1724 wrote:

lmao, you still think poe2 portal system is one portal per map?

Tell us you’ve never played PoE2's endgame without telling us you’ve never played PoE2's endgame. Lol

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

it wouldnt bother me if there wont be any exp penalty anymore because i think it adds nothing to the experience more so it just adds frustration, it just shows your build is bad

So basically, it’s a build problem, which is something the player is in control of. The death penalty adds value by punishing bad decisions and filtering out weak builds caused by poor planning or greedily pushing content. Losing exp for that reason is working exactly as intended.

A higher penalty would also discourage brute force corpse rushing and force players to progress properly instead of repeatedly throwing themselves at content they are not ready for, only to then overreact to deaths that happened as a direct result of their own choices.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

it wouldnt bother me if there wont be any exp penalty anymore because i think it adds nothing to the experience more so it just adds frustration, it just shows your build is bad

So basically, it’s a build problem, which is something the player is in control of. The death penalty adds value by punishing bad decisions and filtering out weak builds caused by poor planning or greedily pushing content. Losing exp for that reason is working exactly as intended.

A higher penalty would also discourage brute force corpse rushing and force players to progress properly instead of repeatedly throwing themselves at content they are not ready for, only to then overreact to deaths that happened as a direct result of their own choices.

But does the fact that people play unoptimised builds, make bad desicions, even corpse rush or one-shot bosses and still have fun with the game actually offends you or affects you at all? Its just a game after all, and it should be fun and not punish players without a reason.

I get that some people need bragging rights about their perfectly optimized lvl 100 immortal build crushing all content in an extremely punishing game with -100% exp death penalty, but that's not the point of PoE. It's not a Dark Souls game. Take a look at flicker strike, it's virtually impossible not to die at least once when you can't even control your character. We're here to destroy hordes of enemies, ocasionally die, loot, repeat. Maybe ARPG like PoE just isn't the best choice for you.