Annual reminder that XP loss on death is bad design.

"

TheVoyant#3002 wrote:

+1

There is ZERO reason for there not be an option for this.

Casual - No XP loss, 5% less exp
Standard - XP loss
Hardcore - No change

The ONLY reason it would not be an option is stubborness at this stage.

Dev team needs to remember games are about fun and enjoyment, not making your players want to uninstall due to poor game design & an unwillingness to adapt.

its funny you complain about gggs "unwillingness to adapt", yet you can't adapt your build in a way that trivializes the xp penalty on death.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

While were at it why cant we have an omen that just teleports us to town if we reach 0 hp and our characters dont receive a death so we never die in hc.

honestly i would want the game to just open a tp on death by default.

as for no death on HC, lmao dude. people dont like death penalty and you're being petty about it.

why such elitism. NO ONE thats asking for the death penalty to be removed are playing hardcore.

if i m being real many of my friends dont LIKE hardcore. we respect our time a great deal more. but we dont make fun of hardcore players. i respect them in fact. they play the game in a way that forces them to make everything matter.

softcore players just want to have fun. cheer up abit. what do YOU specifically lose with this removal of the death penalty?

the only thing i can think of is elitism. heck. free xp parties exist. if we want to be so hardcore, you should make a new suggestion saying parties shouldnt give players XP.

also we might as well request for untainted paradise to be removed from the game as its "tOo EaSy" lmao.

It has nothing to do with elitism. Its a degradation of the games core values to pander to people who want a game that requires very little effort to achieve anything. Creating even less value in the achievement.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

"

TheVoyant#3002 wrote:

+1

There is ZERO reason for there not be an option for this.

Casual - No XP loss, 5% less exp
Standard - XP loss
Hardcore - No change

The ONLY reason it would not be an option is stubborness at this stage.

Dev team needs to remember games are about fun and enjoyment, not making your players want to uninstall due to poor game design & an unwillingness to adapt.

its funny you complain about gggs "unwillingness to adapt", yet you can't adapt your build in a way that trivializes the xp penalty on death.

Its not that people are dying 100 times a day. Its that it feels horrible when you do die to that random oneshot/archnem combo.

You're twisting and warping the problem into something that it isn't: people's builds.

All people are asking for is the game to not delete their hours spent mapping. Removing exp loss would also literally not change the game at all for HC players, so I really don't get why anyone who plays HC would even be against this? It makes no sense. Lvl100 doesn't take months anymore. It has changed massively. The ladder on SC Trade literally doesn't matter, on day 1 there is the first lvl100 guy because people play in a party and do OP exp strats. The only real ladder is delve depth, and then the whole league people just rip in Valdo maps with funny character names. That's the SC Ladder lol

Would it be really so bad if people could just passively accumulate exp and sloooowly level up while they play the game? Does it subtract anything from other people's experience playing the game? No it doesn't.

Like I'd even take a setting that makes me gain 50% less exp but lose none on death. I don't care how slow I level up, I just want my exp to be safe. To be impossible to lose, because it feels horrible for the game to steal away all the exp I've already earned. It makes me want to alt+f4 and not play all day. People literally uninstall over this, when it could be solved so easily.

And playing LE was SO refreshing, I was like "wait, exp loss doesn't have to exist and a game can be fun???". Made me realize how much PoE conditions its players to just accept outdated mechanics like exp loss on death. Even an ancient game like Titan Quest allows you to recover your lost exp if you click your tombstone after dying. Like cmon.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

It has nothing to do with elitism. Its a degradation of the games core values to pander to people who want a game that requires very little effort to achieve anything. Creating even less value in the achievement.

Is it so wrong to want changes in SC Trade, the game's easiest mode? Mediumcore/Hardcore mechanics like exp loss are out of place in it. Nothing would change about the game if exp loss was deleted, and a lot of people would be happy. I promise you that.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

It has nothing to do with elitism. Its a degradation of the games core values to pander to people who want a game that requires very little effort to achieve anything. Creating even less value in the achievement.

what achievement? level 100? the achievement that can be cheated in many multiple ways?

also we have 1500 fuse to force 6 link. thats cheating too!

thinking about it, we never had ascendancy when poe released. anyone who doesnt get to lvl 100 ssf hc on a non ascended character is definitely devaluing the core game value.

u know what. i get where you're coming from. but seriously. thats why hardcore exists. i dont get all the pushback for this for softcore. softcore players are self aware that their achievements pale in comparison to HC players.

similarly i respect SSF players more than regular trade league players. we have all these options to cater for different people.

i m so glad we dont have "one game mode and thats it". poe is not a game for just you. i bet you've seen me bitch and complain about how poe doesnt cater to me for YEARS. it still doesnt. but i learned to adapt and enjoy it for what it is. POE is a game for the players. not for you or for me specifically.

even before SSF was a proper league. you know what SSF players did? they played SSF with self imposed rules. you could do the same. if your character died, logout for 10 hours as penalty.

if this isnt about elitism. why dont i see you bitching about the forced 6 link recipe? being able to fail at 6linking even after spending literal tens of thousands of fuse used to be part of poe's core gameplay mechanic that is "celebrated" by people.

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

It has nothing to do with elitism. Its a degradation of the games core values to pander to people who want a game that requires very little effort to achieve anything. Creating even less value in the achievement.

Is it so wrong to want changes in SC Trade, the game's easiest mode? Mediumcore/Hardcore mechanics like exp loss are out of place in it. Nothing would change about the game if exp loss was deleted, and a lot of people would be happy. I promise you that.

It’s not per se an “easy mode”, it’s the core mode the entire game is actually balanced around. But even if we’re being absurdly generous and call it the easiest of all existing modes, it’s still fair to say we don’t need to sand it down even further. The game is already tuned around that baseline, and the death penalty is doing exactly what it’s designed to do within that mode.

If what you really want is to corpse-rush with zero consequences, then you might simply be looking for a different game, because the death penalty isn’t going anywhere no matter how passionately someone hates it. And technically, the only way it “goes away” is if you… you know… stop dying, no deaths, no penalty.

It’s a far simpler fix to invest into actual defenses and die less than it is to demand that the devs rewrite a system that’s already balanced perfectly fine for the so-called “easy mode” you’re playing.

"

VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

It’s a far simpler fix to invest into actual defenses and die less than it is to demand that the devs rewrite a system that’s already balanced perfectly fine for the so-called “easy mode” you’re playing.

this is fact.

but then again this is the feedback forums.

it just took us 10 years to get async trade.

ggg did compromise with the bosses giving no xp but you lose no xp feature.

i guess another 10 years more before xp penalty is removed lmao

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

ggg did compromise with the bosses giving no xp but you lose no xp feature.

No, the change to boss fights was implemented specifically to encourage players to engage with the encounters more actively, rather than delaying participation until they had leveled up.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

it just took us 10 years to get async trade.

I mean, yes, but I think much of this can be credited to POE2, which really opened the door for these ideas and other QoL. Without it, we’d probably still be stuck in the same place. I also believe a lot of it comes down to the new management being genuinely receptive to meaningful QoL improvements, take asynchronous trading, for example. Had CW still been in charge, I doubt we would have seen this feature or other substantive QoL changes that came about thanks to Mark and Jonathan’s more open approach. Had CW remained in charge, we’d probably still be relegated to playing melee with melee totems.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

but then again this is the feedback forums.

Sure, this is the feedback section, but there’s a fine line between providing genuinely useful feedback and simply complaining about aspects that are already in line with the game’s design, or that could be mitigated in other ways. Even GGG has standards, and by now I think everyone realizes they aren’t going to water down the game to a Diablo 4 level.

There’s also a fine line when it comes to players misunderstanding what QoL changes actually mean. Making the game easier or more forgiving, like removing experience penalties or demanding instant gratification, is not really QoL.

What they did with boss fights, however, is QoL, it allows players to engage with bosses as soon as they’re ready, rather than holding back to level up out of fear of losing experience. That’s a meaningful improvement that respects the game’s design while making it more approachable.

"

VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

ggg did compromise with the bosses giving no xp but you lose no xp feature.

No, the change to boss fights was implemented specifically to encourage players to engage with the encounters more actively, rather than delaying participation until they had leveled up.

thats a fact and is explicitly stated by ggg.

on the flipside, it does solve the issue of losing XP halfway. why are people not participating? it is not because they want to level up first. the real answer is they dont want to lose XP. this is not mentioned explicitly but i m sure that many would conclude with this when asked. "why do people delay participation only after they level up?"

one answer is the next level is crucial and could make the build work. or give additional power.

but most often than not. when youre above level 90, the answer lies in "i dont want to lose XP".

sometimes when my guildies need help. sometimes some of our members REFUSE TO HELP. why? sorry bro i m at 80% xp. i dont want to risk it.

understandable

either way it is something i greatly appreciate. my mapping progress has been going on much faster than my usual pace, thanks to this feature.

as for complaining.

where would we be without complaints?

i still remember a bunch of forummers condescendingly mocking others for requesting an in game clock.

a lot of people are requesting the removal of xp penalty.

what do we lose with this removal? i cant speak for all players but i guarantee you that more SC players will feel motivated to keep playing

Before they changed the boss fights xp I was telling this on this forum for a long time that it was so awful having to delay boss fights that was ready because we had to wait for level up. Thank god they at least changed that.

Found one post from 2023.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3409929/page/5

"Have you ever had to kill a boss when you were close to level up and you couldn't kill the boss i.e. lost the key and lost 50-60% xp too? Or just don't attempt anything but on 0% xp? Simply just were in the mood to kill some bosses but it is too risky to attempt before level up? So you have to delay? Do you feel how limiting factor is that?"

I was ahead of all of you on this even back then and I'm ahead of you even now. Just wait till they realise I'm right.