Popular Opinion: In 3.28 League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The challenge system is perfectly fine how it is, and its only getting better.

No, the state of the challenge system is not “perfectly fine,” and you really can’t assert that it is when the overwhelming majority is saying the exact opposite. The system is very obviously in dire need of a rework, and everything that’s been discussed or presented so far only underlines the flaws of the current system, and the community’s very loud desire for something better, something actually improved.

So no, insisting it’s perfectly fine doesn’t magically make it true, especially when most players clearly disagree with you.

Nah, the majority of players are enjoying the game and getting their ez 40/40 done and then chill. Challenges are almost at just the right spot, they juuuust need to remove t17s and uber bosses from them and then they're gonna be perfect.

Again, they've been getting easier and easier every league. I complete so many of them without trying, which feels amazing. It also feels amazing to pay someone 2 divines and sit there, watching them do a boss or challenge for me. Its pretty fun. And it gives me a huge sense of achievement or accomplishment, as if I had done the challenge all on my own. Its very nice.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

No, the state of the challenge system is not “perfectly fine,”

i do agree with you. it is not perfectly fine. but as i mentioned. it is in a place that it cant be changed.

different people have different reasons to come back and play league content. earning 40/40 pole or challenge mtx rewards is one large driving factor.

in fact i used to be a purely STD player. but once in a while GGG managed to lure me in coz of the super cool mtx that i could achieve in a reasonable amount of time with carries.

some people get the 40/40 pole out of habit. they have every single pole so they cant stop. if you make it too difficult and they cant get it anymore. they will break the tradition and might skip leagues entirely. and for some players poe leagues is the only way they play.

so despite agreeing with you i dont see a way ggg can change it.

Bump for visibility.

While I agree with the sentiment to some degree, I am now one of those who would just stop coming if the challenges were reworked to be harder to obtain. I get 40/40 out of habit / obsession and 39/40 just does not cut it, for me it is the same as 0/40 and saves time for some other game.

My main counter argument is that building unkillable beast in trade league basically just relates to currency spent. Therefore, it does not really differ if I do not spend my divines on carries and am instead forced to spend it on "the build". It just takes more time, not skill, not anything "more worthy of achieving". So in the end, I disagree.

There might be a "pole addition", kind of a crest or pin or color hue on it, for players achieving (some part of it?) in SSF, but hey, that will never become a mainstream and reworking challenges wont help it.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

2 ways i view this.

1. if players have so much fomo that they even consider screen sharing, they might end up just feeling demotivated. "i cant get this mtx, fuck this league".

end result: similar thinking players skip the league, potential loss of revenue to ggg as these players might not even want to see the supporter packs, kirac pass or anything released during the league.

2. some players have SEVERE FOMO. for sure one can argue its a them issue. and you're right. but this is also something that can be biological as people are wired differently. some people are born smart, some are literally retarded. there are many things that real people have different tendencies on. gambling and fomo is one of them.

so what happens to these people with severe fomo? they might attempt to use screen sharing service which gets them banned.

If FOMO goes so far that people willingly break the Terms of Service, then I honestly do not know what to say, because at that point the responsibility is entirely on them. If someone lets their fear of missing out push them into account sharing, botting, real money trading, or any other ToS violation, and they end up getting banned for it, that is not the fault of the game, the developers, or the design choices. It is simply the consequence of their own decisions, and blaming anyone else for it makes absolutely no sense.

There will always be some level of FOMO no matter how developers decide to design their game, but it is important to understand that not all FOMO is harmful. In fact, there are two very different types. There is the natural, positive kind of FOMO that everyone experiences when they see something appealing and feel motivated to pursue it before the opportunity disappears, and then there is the unhealthy kind that grows out of frustration, comparison, and a conflicted relationship with the game.

Positive FOMO is actually one of the forces that keeps many games fun, active, and worth returning to. It appears when players notice an exciting challenge, an event, or a cosmetic reward and feel inspired to work toward it because it adds purpose to their playtime. Limited-time opportunities can create a sense of adventure and accomplishment, encouraging players to log in and try something new. This form of FOMO is not rooted in anxiety but in motivation, curiosity, and the enjoyment of earning something meaningful. It helps maintain the natural rhythm of a live game, where rotating content provides fresh goals and memorable experiences. Many players look back fondly on things they earned simply because they did not want to miss something exciting.

The unhealthy form of FOMO is completely different. This happens when people feel upset because others enjoy content that they avoid themselves, or when they feel resentment toward rewards that are available to everyone but remain out of reach only because they refuse to engage with the content. In those cases, the frustration is not a design flaw but a personal issue. The contrast between positive and negative FOMO becomes clear when you consider that one drives enthusiasm while the other creates bitterness.

Chris Wilson has spoken about this before, and he did a very solid job explaining it. I am not quite sure if you follow his videos on YouTube, but he released a pretty decent video on this exact topic very recently, and it is worth taking a look at if you have not seen it yet. He explained how FOMO, when approached responsibly, can motivate players in a positive way without manipulating them. When meaningful challenges exist, players who would otherwise quit early often stay longer because they feel more involved, not because they feel pressured.

Naturally, some people will stop playing, but those are typically the players who were never very invested in the first place. Their departure does not harm the game, especially when more players become active thanks to engaging content. Positive FOMO helps strengthen the community, gives players reasons to stay, and makes the game feel more alive overall.

Players who remain longer and enjoy the game because they have real goals and meaningful content are also more likely to support the game financially, simply because people are willing to invest in experiences they truly enjoy. From a business intelligence standpoint, someone who never spends money cannot cause financial loss by leaving, since they were never contributing revenue in the first place.

In the end, positive FOMO motivates and enriches the player experience, while unhealthy FOMO is something that individuals need to work through on their own. The key is designing content that encourages the positive kind and avoids manipulative structures, ultimately creating a healthier and more engaging game environment.

And that is why a change to the challenge system is long overdue, so challenges become exciting rather than boring and bland, while also being achievable only through genuine solo accomplishment in order to positively push player engagement in a healthy way. This would help leagues stay active for a much longer time and encourage players to explore all the new and fresh content they would otherwise skip, or even complain about, despite not being truly invested in it due to relying exclusively on carries in the first place.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nah, the majority of players are enjoying the game and getting their ez 40/40 done and then chill.

This discussion already makes it clear that you are not speaking for the majority of the playerbase, so please stop presenting your personal view as if it were universal. The interest shown here in having better, more meaningful challenges, earned through genuine solo completion rather than cheese, is undeniable, and that is simply a fact.

Some of the Valdo's maps with the best shiny loot have a mod on them that only allows 1 player present inside the map at a time and people didn't start account sharing over it, so that's a moot argument to begin with as solo content already is part of the game.

The real question is whether removing multiplayer from integral league design is a net positive for the game on its merits, and I'd argue it's not.

Rather, I'd argue that the challenge design itself needs to be looked at. As someone who actually completes their 40/40 by themselves I can attest to how badly RNG can affect some particular challenges and what's required to complete them.

So the way I see it either

1) challenge design is being reviewed by GGG critically or
2) solo completion gets an extra incentive, e.g. through marking them as such. I don't think extra rewards are the way to go because people are gonna FOMO hard if that were the case, but a pat on the back with the mark of a solo chad would go a long way

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

If FOMO goes so far that people willingly break the Terms of Service, then I honestly do not know what to say, because at that point the responsibility is entirely on them.

its funny how we both watched chris's vid. chris highlights how fomo is a thing and how companies actively engage in shady practices that EXPLOIT fomo and even gives the example of his friend experiencing severe fomo and yet you still can brush it off saying the responsibility is on them.

for sure it is, no one is denying that. but at the same time, the message chris is conveying is fomo is a VERY strong emotion that companies can take advantage on and have taken advantage on.

i do agree there is positive fomo and i m not denying such things exist. but that said, theres nothing more to discuss about the topic as much as you dont like it. the current system cannot be changed without impacting GGG's revenue stream.

and as i said. i do prefer some solo only challenges and i have given some suggestions that does not disrupt the status quo. fuck i feel like a druid lol

The biggest FOMO in this game comes from async trade, where you’re punished for not running bots to snipe mispriced Magebloods at 1% of their value. Yet somehow we’re supposed to believe that something far smaller—like challenges—creates the kind of FOMO we should actually worry about?

Somehow I don't see some of you arguing to remove async because it promotes FOMO to a point people are willing to break ToS (and that is a way bigger issue).

No, challenges will be fine as solo only.

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

The biggest FOMO in this game comes from async trade, where you’re punished for not running bots to snipe mispriced Magebloods at 1% of their value. Yet somehow we’re supposed to believe that something far smaller—like challenges—creates the kind of FOMO we should actually worry about?

Somehow I don't see some of you arguing to remove async because it promotes FOMO to a point people are willing to break ToS (and that is a way bigger issue).

No, challenges will be fine as solo only.

in my opinion, the reason why people dont talk about async trade fomo is because trade is an internal game mechanic.

if we're talking in game mechanic then theres a strong fomo to use meta builds because why the fuck not? if you're not meta you probably might not get far and use a lot of currency making a shitty build.

that is where the difference lies.

challenge fomo is something external from the in game experience.

see all the steam challenges? they dont give you any power whatsoever upon completion.

similarly league challenges dont give you any in game power upon completion.

its simply different and to compare the 2 are kind of... not a right thing to do? apples to oranges one might say.

anyway, i have mentioned players earning 40/40 poles every single league. some of these people rely on carries and have been playing this way for a literal decade. ask yourself. can you guarantee ALL of these loyal players would continue jumping into leagues if they feel like they can no longer achieve their 40/40 pole?