[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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Moridin79 wrote:
Why dropping bloodlust for vile toxins?


Last league there were two build versions, bleed and impale.

With the bleed version, we wanted to use bloodlust.

Due to all the various nerfs this league, the two main versions that emerged are poison and impale. In those versions, bloodlust is not needed. When using poison, bloodlust is replaced with vile toxins.
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"
Moridin79 wrote:
Why dropping bloodlust for vile toxins?


Last league there were two build versions, bleed and impale.

With the bleed version, we wanted to use bloodlust.

Due to all the various nerfs this league, the two main versions that emerged are poison and impale. In those versions, bloodlust is not needed. When using poison, bloodlust is replaced with vile toxins.


Ah thanks. So poison > impale this league?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/988f3369-4b68-4eb9-bc0e-edfce4c3c950
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Moridin79 wrote:
"
"
Moridin79 wrote:
Why dropping bloodlust for vile toxins?


Last league there were two build versions, bleed and impale.

With the bleed version, we wanted to use bloodlust.

Due to all the various nerfs this league, the two main versions that emerged are poison and impale. In those versions, bloodlust is not needed. When using poison, bloodlust is replaced with vile toxins.


Ah thanks. So poison > impale this league?


they are really close. Last league impale was king but it got gigga nerfed.

The highest DPS build I have seen this league was impale, but it also had all GG gear. I think with equivalent gear, your DPS for either version is going to be very close so pick which ever one you like better.
Interesting. I just recently put on a few pieces and the build seems pretty nuts.

One thing is that sometimes when I pop the jars I don't spawn any spiders. I feel like the other minions kill the worms before I can hit them lol
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/988f3369-4b68-4eb9-bc0e-edfce4c3c950
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Moridin79 wrote:

One thing is that sometimes when I pop the jars I don't spawn any spiders. I feel like the other minions kill the worms before I can hit them lol


This is a common problem but manageable.

The best way to counter this is to make sure you don't have any spiders awake when you try and raise more. You can remove any left over spiders instantly by pressing X twice. Pressing X will cause you to switch your weapon to your back up weapon (make sure you have a back up equipped first) which instantly kills the spiders.

If there are any HOP sentinels still alive when you want to wake up the spiders, simply use Signal Prey on a monster to divert their attention or just wait for theme to expire.
Yea, the timing of writhing jar really is a learned art. It was actually one of the bigger advantages to the mana guardian HoAG build over HoP. Being able to ice nova instantly on the worms was really solid and made keeping the spiders up so easy…trade off was the damage was VERY dependent on keeping them up for wither stacks.

I'm getting that lol. I've never actually used the writhing jar in the 6 years I've been playing poe so I miss the worms more often than not it seems. The life flask pantheon really helps though.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/988f3369-4b68-4eb9-bc0e-edfce4c3c950
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Moridin79 wrote:
I'm getting that lol. I've never actually used the writhing jar in the 6 years I've been playing poe so I miss the worms more often than not it seems. The life flask pantheon really helps though.


Also, pay attention to where you are when you drink the flask. The worms are highly susceptible the many sources of dangerous ground in the game and will die very quickly if your don't spin into them immediately.
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Spoiler
Spoiler
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lacalaca wrote:


Hey Andy i followed your advice, it was great did no respond right away because i wanted to play a bit first and grind some levels to answer you back. Right now the build feels awesome, doing some t16 corrupted maps and i feel almost unkillable, i've dying to some strange dot damage from beasts but that's an isolated case and i feel it might be corrupted blood since i haven't invested into it yet(think i would just pay 10c for a random jewel and put into the cluster free jewel socket).

Mapping itself it's just relax time, just press your flasks and your vaals when you need and you can even zoom zoom it. the only i don't know if it's a problems it's that my bossing dps is a little low, i killed al hezmin yesterday, he did not pose any danger even when he was A6, i just facetanked everything, he couldn't even take half my ES, defensive wise the build is dope, but it took like 4-5 minutes to kill him without going back to refill my flasks, i don't know if my bossing dps is normal or i need some upgrades? i have around 10ex to expend right now, so i'll leave my new POB HERE: https://pastebin.com/TRKjq8dv


hello!

You have made fantastic progress! I will leave some comments below. As always, only follow what you like or makes sense.

* Your instincts are excellent. There is a 99% chance the DOT that is killing you is corrupted blood. I was having a bad time with it myself (flasks just suck this league :( ) until I got the corrupted blood immunity and now all other DOT is so easy to handle (see next bullet point)

* There is a very important enchantment you need on your boots. You need to get "Regenerate 2% of life if you have been hit recently" Thanks to Zealots Oath, this gets applied to ES and helps slow down DOT. You can either buy this or run the uber lab. There are 15 possible enchantments for the boots so it will take on average 15 times. Could be much longer or shorter obviously. You can also buy the enchantment since it is usually available on trade with these boots.

* Your damage is fine for your current level. Yes it will be slow killing bosses but you have an enormous amount of room for growth because your gems are under leveled right now. The most important item to increase your DPS is the level of the HOP gem. You want to get a level 21 HOP gem (1 ex) and a level 4 Empower (9 ex) as your two first upgrades. In the future I can show you other ways to continue to raise the level of the HOP gem.

* As you level, you will also fill out your second cluster jewel (which is identical to the first one) and pick up plenty of DPS

* Also, don't forget that on any single target that looks hard to you, you want to swap out Melee Splash for Multistrike in your dagger. This gives your spiders more bite against single targets.

* Don't forget when calculating your POB damage, to tick off "Is Enemy Maimed". You can set this because we are maiming with Cyclone.

* With the 10ex, I would make things easy on your self. Buy the Level 21/20 HOP and an Empower 4 (you can get both for 10ex exactly right now). This will give you a huge boost to your single target DPS and then you can save up for other stuff like the Watchers Eye with Clarity mod on it.

* Another huge damage boost is the Helmet enchant to get another sentinel. That is effectively a 25% more boost in dps all by itself.

Please let me know if you have any questions.




Hey Andy how are you doing? i've taking it slowly since last time and i have done most of the things in this league already so it gets a bit boring to play for longer periods, since your last advice i bought the empower 4 and the 21/20 HOP and i'm doing really good damage, i'm taking bosses quite fast at AW7 even sirus phases are like 15 seconds or so.

Right now i'm having trouble dealing with Uber Atziri i don't know how or why shes almost one shoting me with the smaller circles dealing like 6k dmg and my ES is 7k so it's really dangerous, i tanked most of the bosses without a problem(even the hidden was a piece of cake compared to this) so it's really a surprise that atziri is doing even more than them, aside from that i wonder what would be the next upgrades, i'm already looking for a well rolled helm with +1 sentinel, don't know what to look for watcher's eye tho.

Ive thinking about switching to ellariz version with impale/large clusters to upgrade my damage, i don't really know if that's the answer for my problem.

POB: https://pastebin.com/YLMrgUFb
Last edited by lacalaca on Sep 12, 2021, 1:13:33 PM
"
lacalaca wrote:
"
Spoiler
Spoiler
"
lacalaca wrote:


Hey Andy i followed your advice, it was great did no respond right away because i wanted to play a bit first and grind some levels to answer you back. Right now the build feels awesome, doing some t16 corrupted maps and i feel almost unkillable, i've dying to some strange dot damage from beasts but that's an isolated case and i feel it might be corrupted blood since i haven't invested into it yet(think i would just pay 10c for a random jewel and put into the cluster free jewel socket).

Mapping itself it's just relax time, just press your flasks and your vaals when you need and you can even zoom zoom it. the only i don't know if it's a problems it's that my bossing dps is a little low, i killed al hezmin yesterday, he did not pose any danger even when he was A6, i just facetanked everything, he couldn't even take half my ES, defensive wise the build is dope, but it took like 4-5 minutes to kill him without going back to refill my flasks, i don't know if my bossing dps is normal or i need some upgrades? i have around 10ex to expend right now, so i'll leave my new POB HERE: https://pastebin.com/TRKjq8dv


hello!

You have made fantastic progress! I will leave some comments below. As always, only follow what you like or makes sense.

* Your instincts are excellent. There is a 99% chance the DOT that is killing you is corrupted blood. I was having a bad time with it myself (flasks just suck this league :( ) until I got the corrupted blood immunity and now all other DOT is so easy to handle (see next bullet point)

* There is a very important enchantment you need on your boots. You need to get "Regenerate 2% of life if you have been hit recently" Thanks to Zealots Oath, this gets applied to ES and helps slow down DOT. You can either buy this or run the uber lab. There are 15 possible enchantments for the boots so it will take on average 15 times. Could be much longer or shorter obviously. You can also buy the enchantment since it is usually available on trade with these boots.

* Your damage is fine for your current level. Yes it will be slow killing bosses but you have an enormous amount of room for growth because your gems are under leveled right now. The most important item to increase your DPS is the level of the HOP gem. You want to get a level 21 HOP gem (1 ex) and a level 4 Empower (9 ex) as your two first upgrades. In the future I can show you other ways to continue to raise the level of the HOP gem.

* As you level, you will also fill out your second cluster jewel (which is identical to the first one) and pick up plenty of DPS

* Also, don't forget that on any single target that looks hard to you, you want to swap out Melee Splash for Multistrike in your dagger. This gives your spiders more bite against single targets.

* Don't forget when calculating your POB damage, to tick off "Is Enemy Maimed". You can set this because we are maiming with Cyclone.

* With the 10ex, I would make things easy on your self. Buy the Level 21/20 HOP and an Empower 4 (you can get both for 10ex exactly right now). This will give you a huge boost to your single target DPS and then you can save up for other stuff like the Watchers Eye with Clarity mod on it.

* Another huge damage boost is the Helmet enchant to get another sentinel. That is effectively a 25% more boost in dps all by itself.

Please let me know if you have any questions.




Hey Andy how are you doing? i've taking it slowly since last time and i have done most of the things in this league already so it gets a bit boring to play for longer periods, since your last advice i bought the empower 4 and the 21/20 HOP and i'm doing really good damage, i'm taking bosses quite fast at AW7 even sirus phases are like 15 seconds or so.

Right now i'm having trouble dealing with Uber Atziri i don't know how or why shes almost one shoting me with the smaller circles dealing like 6k dmg and my ES is 7k so it's really dangerous, i tanked most of the bosses without a problem(even the hidden was a piece of cake compared to this) so it's really a surprise that atziri is doing even more than them, aside from that i wonder what would be the next upgrades, i'm already looking for a well rolled helm with +1 sentinel, don't know what to look for watcher's eye tho.

Ive thinking about switching to ellariz version with impale/large clusters to upgrade my damage, i don't really know if that's the answer for my problem.

POB: https://pastebin.com/YLMrgUFb


Hello.

I have not fought Atziri so I can't speculate. Some one earlier in the thread said they had a fairly easy time. You have to make sure you are Marking (signal prey) the right one of the three else the sentinels are going to die immediately to reflect.

I don't know how much currency you have but switching to the the GG impale build is going to cost you around 100ex. And that is assuming you can even find the two keys items. The double corrupted armor does not exist right now on sale from any one. I have not looked to see if the amulet exists. Ellarizz paid 55ex for his amulet alone.

Luckily, you still have a ton of room for damage improvement in your current build with out having to spend that much money.

*You need a single corrupted armor (either +2 to duration or +1 to all gems). This will be a massive damage increase

*The helmet enchant (+1 to sentinels) is going to give an ENORMOUS 25% more damage increase

* Start to search for an amulet that has a ton of dex, and then +1 to to all phy gems and +1 to all strength gems

If you get those 3 items, you will roughly double your current damage. Also, don't forget to grab the Watcher's Eye with Clarity mod. It will give you a bunch of ES.
Last edited by AndyLovesHisBge on Sep 12, 2021, 3:13:43 PM

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