[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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Prov1eh wrote:

Thank you very much, really appreciate you taking the time to help all the people out in here, I'm gonna try the poison version and work on increasing my HOP gem level, empower lvl 4 is so expensive this league though, gonna report back. :)

You are welcome. I am not playing this build this league but my current build also needs Empower and yes it is silly expensive.

It is double what it normally goes for in league. I assume that is due to the many nerfs where as Empower did not get hit with a nerf.

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

You should be using either the poison version https://pastebin.com/7QWvHaqD or Impale version https://pastebin.com/epJAbTCE for this league

Why do we use Fragile Bloom jewel in the poison build? Wouldn't it be better to use large cluster jewel with 2 mediums as in impale build (to support minions more)? Couldn't find any info about Fragile Regrowth - is it only about life regen (or rather ES thanks to Zealot's Oath)?

I'm struggling atm with capping my resistances and spell block. This causes some random deaths (at least I think that's the reason) in yellow maps. Any idea how can I improve that?

https://pastebin.com/vbfrHnX7

I had some unreserved mana while using all 3 auras so I took also War Banner.

Btw, what type of damage damage spiders and sentinels do? Is it chaos? I couldn't kill chaos immune pack in Expedition so this is my first thought.

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

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Ellarizz wrote:

Andy check out my build now :)

I have squeezed as much as I can into dps and next thing is going for +2 Duration on my Skin.

any recommendations besides that?

I would love some more deeps but on the other hand dont want that to be of the cost of the def. Since this build is so defensive its kinda a shame to go all offense and still not be able to compete with the high end offensive builds and on top of that be squishier.

(A thought I am having is how about we replace the HOP with Skeletons?) I am trying to impliment the same core mechanic (defense, gear) yet having more sustainable minions like skeletons and the opportunity to summon minions whenever one wants to.

Will try to perfect my theory in POB. (Just a theory).

Hello!

Here are some comments

1) I noticed you have two freezing flasks. I think that is overkill. I would replace one of them Of Heat with an of Iron Skin.

2) You have overinvested in armor imo. You may want to consider replacing Energized Armor with a rare jewel that has as much mana, int, ES and armor as you can afford. It will have a much bigger effect on all parts of your build.

3) you can raise your dps quite a bit with a different HOP support setup. As you upgrade, try replacing Ruthless and Melee Phys with Predator and Empower (level 4). Raising HOP's level is paramount in scaling DPS and Empower does that for you. Predator will allow you to remove convocation as well. Add in a predator to your spiders and you will be good to go. See the pob I have posted for the full setup. I realize this may cause you to get a new chest but you will have to anyways when you upgrade for the corrupted version.

4) Just a note about skeletons. This build is structured around not having to invest in minion life/survivability. The sentinels are naturally chunky and the spiders can't be damaged. If you want to switch to a different minion group, you will need a new tree/investment into life or the Skeletons won't stay alive long enough to do any damage. I also don't think skele's will work with cyclone. We use cyclone to always be moving and keeping fortify up. Instead of cycloning, you would be self casting skele's constantly.

First and foremost thank you Andy! You are a gem and always willing to help and put people in a better position playing and enjoying this game.

About the feedback I will clarify some things that I feel and would love some feedback on them aswell.

1) Partly true here. I noticed the content I am enjoying the most is a lot of chilling and freezing so went with 2 just in case, 1 where it auto triggers and the other one where I push the button in case of emergency, while it also being a quicksilver so I can shield charge away from action.

2) This part I agree with you and I replaced the Energized Armour with a cobalt Jewel that has corrupted blood can not be inflicted on you which is vital. The thing is the guide is so hyped about energized armour, got me hyped aswell but you are right I dont need that much armour. So that part is fixed.

3) Here is the part where me and you have to respectfully agree to disagree. I understand that predator is in 99% of all the builds and people just blindly follow a guide without honestly knowing the inns and outs of the build (hence why I LOVE this guide, beacuse Vatina´s took the time and the energy to explain everything. I mean litteraly EVERYTHING). Anyways back to Predator, If you go blindly by POB then yes I agree that you should have Predator but playing and having a sheet in PoB is different, what I mean is a player hardly use predator during maps, they use Predator on bosses and maybe map bosses, thats it. So me not having Predator is having a steadier dps than being bursty on bosses. Hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

Empower is something I will get as soon as I have the currency for it. I dont want to buy a Empower lvl 1 and then have it lvl up in my second weapon slot. I rather just farm the currency and buy a lvl 4 straight up, but I am honestly going for the +2 Duration on the skin first before even targeting Empower.

4) Thank you for clearing that up. It was a theory I had but you explained it perfectly and no need for me to even start with that headache then.

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Jack0o wrote:

Btw, what type of damage damage spiders and sentinels do? Is it chaos? I couldn't kill chaos immune pack in Expedition so this is my first thought.

Spiders use Viper Strike primarily as their skill and always poison on hit.

The Sentinels have multiple skills they use that you can read about here. https://poedb.tw/us/Sentinel_of_Purity

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Ellarizz wrote:

1) Partly true here. I noticed the content I am enjoying the most is a lot of chilling and freezing so went with 2 just in case, 1 where it auto triggers and the other one where I push the button in case of emergency, while it also being a quicksilver so I can shield charge away from action.

2) This part I agree with you and I replaced the Energized Armour with a cobalt Jewel that has corrupted blood can not be inflicted on you which is vital. The thing is the guide is so hyped about energized armour, got me hyped aswell but you are right I dont need that much armour. So that part is fixed.

3) Here is the part where me and you have to respectfully agree to disagree. I understand that predator is in 99% of all the builds and people just blindly follow a guide without honestly knowing the inns and outs of the build (hence why I LOVE this guide, beacuse Vatina´s took the time and the energy to explain everything. I mean litteraly EVERYTHING). Anyways back to Predator, If you go blindly by POB then yes I agree that you should have Predator but playing and having a sheet in PoB is different, what I mean is a player hardly use predator during maps, they use Predator on bosses and maybe map bosses, thats it. So me not having Predator is having a steadier dps than being bursty on bosses. Hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

Empower is something I will get as soon as I have the currency for it. I dont want to buy a Empower lvl 1 and then have it lvl up in my second weapon slot. I rather just farm the currency and buy a lvl 4 straight up, but I am honestly going for the +2 Duration on the skin first before even targeting Empower.

4) Thank you for clearing that up. It was a theory I had but you explained it perfectly and no need for me to even start with that headache then.

1) Understood! Have you experimented with the new flask orbs? I have not yet but I will be soon.

2) I too started with Energized Armor but then I realized that the written part of the guide is pretty old and if you notice, the build owner has removed EA from the POB (which is the one piece of the guide he updates each league).

3) I understand your thoughts. I used Predator CONSTANTLY while mapping. It has an incredible dual function of not only marking a single target but works fabulously as a type of Convocation. By using Predator (which has no cool down like Convocation) you can constantly control how and where your minions attack while mapping. Since it is instant, you don't even need to stop cycloning. And if you mark all the rares while mapping, everything just melts. It is a much more engaged play style but it also makes you feel like you are helping instead of just being a bystander. And with all DPS being lowered this league, it is going to take forever to kill the big bosses with out Predator I fear.


I hope you have good luck this league!! Good drops for me are very elusive so far :)

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Jack0o wrote:

I'm struggling atm with capping my resistances and spell block. This causes some random deaths (at least I think that's the reason) in yellow maps. Any idea how can I improve that?

https://pastebin.com/vbfrHnX7

I had the same problem in regards to resistances, I solved this by swapping Cyclopean Coil with a Darkness Enthroned Stygian Vise and then use two Jewels with +% Resistance you need, the belt will increase the resistance by 75% which is massive. I have a jewel with 15% Fire and 15% Cold res with the 75% increase it ends up being 26% Fire and Cold Res from one single Jewel and you can socket another one. In addition, you can also swap your Circle of Guilt rings with ones that have +% res as implicit. Looking at your POB you should be fine with just swapping belt and getting one jewel with cold & lightning resistance and you'll be capped.

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Prov1eh wrote:

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Jack0o wrote:

I'm struggling atm with capping my resistances and spell block. This causes some random deaths (at least I think that's the reason) in yellow maps. Any idea how can I improve that?

https://pastebin.com/vbfrHnX7

I had the same problem in regards to resistances, I solved this by swapping Cyclopean Coil with a Darkness Enthroned Stygian Vise and then use two Jewels with +% Resistance you need, the belt will increase the resistance by 75% which is massive. I have a jewel with 15% Fire and 15% Cold res with the 75% increase it ends up being 26% Fire and Cold Res from one single Jewel and you can socket another one. In addition, you can also swap your Circle of Guilt rings with ones that have +% res as implicit. Looking at your POB you should be fine with just swapping belt and getting one jewel with cold & lightning resistance and you'll be capped.

Good idea :) Capped my resistances, even added some minion damage and 6% spellblock from both jewels. Seems like huge defence buff for the cost of ca. 100 ES ... and shock / ignite immunity (gonna test if it doesn't hurt too much).

EDIT: Got another 12% spell block chance by anointing amulet with Arcane Guarding :)

Could someone explain (or link to the post explaining) the differences between the impale and poison version? From what I've seen, it seems the impale version has a little better dps, but might also cost more since you have to fit in a Dread Banner?

What are the differences in:

- Gems and links
- Mana reservation
- Cost/gear
- Playstyle

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Fire309 wrote:

Could someone explain (or link to the post explaining) the differences between the impale and poison version? From what I've seen, it seems the impale version has a little better dps, but might also cost more since you have to fit in a Dread Banner?

What are the differences in:

- Gems and links
- Mana reservation
- Cost/gear
- Playstyle

*The playstyle is identical.

*The cost/gear is pretty much identical. The main difference is the cluster jewels.

*The Impale version uses more mana reservation, where as the poison version employs less auras but includes an extra sentinel.

* The gems and gear will be fully explained in the two POB's

Poison: https://pastebin.com/7QWvHaqD
Impale: https://pastebin.com/epJAbTCE

After looking through the two POB's, please ask any specific questions you might have and I will try and answer.

After looking at the two PoBs and equalizing the gear a bit, it seems like both versions have pretty equal dps. The specific PoB for the impale version placed more emphasis on dps in the cluster jewel notables, but couldn't both versions just run the same cluster jewels (plus perhaps another reduced reservation notable for Discipline/Determination for the impale version)?

If that's the case, why go to the trouble of the impale version? Is the dps marginally better or more consistent?

Also, is the skill tree in the impale version PoB more optimal than the one in the original guide? I see that it takes Arcane Guarding and skips Discord Artisan, while also forgoing Holy Dominion in the Templar area.

Lastly, does the poison version get an extra potential sentinel because the impale version needs to run a HoP reduced mana reserved helm enchant?