[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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Mastodonic wrote:
Why do we use ruthless over multistrike or even melee phys?

Look mana multiplier, ruthless have 110%, melee phys 140%, multistrike 160%. If you have 3B3R armour, divergent minion is a good alternative too.

Loosing flesh and stone-maim or dread banner for melee phys or multistrike is not good, but if you have too much mana not reserved you can use this gem for adjust.
I currently have HoP, Discipline, Determination, Flesh and Stone, and a Dread banner going and my HoP links look like HoP, Predator, Bloodlust, Melee Phys, Impale, and Multistrike. Currently have ~190 mana to spare. In a case like this (where reservation isn't an issue) what would be the best/most optimal links for HoP damage wise? I could also drop F&S+Banner entirely for Pride and be fine on reservation. What is optimal in this case? Thanks!
Last edited by YoungPrettyboy on May 5, 2021, 9:03:54 AM
why summon holy relic over a golem? wouldnt b e a golem buff more worth?
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Artegal87 wrote:
why summon holy relic over a golem? wouldnt b e a golem buff more worth?


You'll never keep the golem alive, and the golem kills your worms when you are trying to spawn spiders/sentinels.
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I currently have HoP, Discipline, Determination, Flesh and Stone, and a Dread banner going and my HoP links look like HoP, Predator, Bloodlust, Melee Phys, Impale, and Multistrike. Currently have ~190 mana to spare. In a case like this (where reservation isn't an issue) what would be the best/most optimal links for HoP damage wise? I could also drop F&S+Banner entirely for Pride and be fine on reservation. What is optimal in this case? Thanks!

looks optimal to me with your current tree. F&S+Banner is still better than Pride tbh(only lose to pride max effect), unless you want Pride + Banner. Alternatively you can buy watcher's eye that give % Maximum mana as ES with clarity and fit clarity for more mana reservation + juicy ES.

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Artegal87 wrote:
why summon holy relic over a golem? wouldnt b e a golem buff more worth?
already answered, but i'll also add reason you want holy relic is to proc feeding frenzy for chunky DPS boost. Golem die ultra quickly ~1-2s after jump and it's a pain to resummon it(with cast when stunned you need to get hit), holy relic can stay alive for long time unless big AoE atk come and don't mess with your spider spawn too.
why is charisma not in the anointments part? or in FAQ about mana?
nice guide tho, very good. :)
Clarity+Determination watcher's eye is out of my budget at the moment. Would dropping determination watchers eye for clarity watchers eye be better in the meantime?
Brand new player just starting end game. A few questions:

1)If spiders do 90% of our damage, why do we put so much resources into HoP to do so little? I looked at the game and don't see a glaring reason for why we take HoP. Do they offer some sort of defensive or something?

2) I am lvl 84 with almost all the mana res nodes and 1 circle ring with 19% mana res. I still can't run flesh and stone yet. Is another circle ring with 19-20 mana res the only thing stopping this?

3) I have 90% of the jewels (no watchers eye yet), and all of the uniques (except another circle of guilt). I only have 35k armour. Is min/maxing or levels really the culprit for additional missing 35K armour? Am I missing something?

4) What stats are priority on the abyss belt jewels besides resists? If you guys are using the cyclopean belt in the PoB where are you making up for the missing ele resists?

5) During ultimatums sometimes my ES steadily drops very quickly as if I'm during to a powerful DoT. If I'm immune to corrupted blood then what could be causing this?

6) I still die quite often in T13+ ultimatums if I'm not rapidly cycling through my Vaal Disc, molten shield, and granite flask. How are people running this build straight up unkillable and AFKing in Juiced T16 ults? Am I missing another flask or defensive?

Again, I'm pretty new and just started like 10 days ago, so sorry if this has been addressed a bunch in the thread, but I haven't been following comments for very long. Thanks in advance.
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Ravun1988 wrote:
Brand new player just starting end game. A few questions:

1)If spiders do 90% of our damage, why do we put so much resources into HoP to do so little? I looked at the game and don't see a glaring reason for why we take HoP. Do they offer some sort of defensive or something?

2) I am lvl 84 with almost all the mana res nodes and 1 circle ring with 19% mana res. I still can't run flesh and stone yet. Is another circle ring with 19-20 mana res the only thing stopping this?

3) I have 90% of the jewels (no watchers eye yet), and all of the uniques (except another circle of guilt). I only have 35k armour. Is min/maxing or levels really the culprit for additional missing 35K armour? Am I missing something?

4) What stats are priority on the abyss belt jewels besides resists? If you guys are using the cyclopean belt in the PoB where are you making up for the missing ele resists?

5) During ultimatums sometimes my ES steadily drops very quickly as if I'm during to a powerful DoT. If I'm immune to corrupted blood then what could be causing this?

6) I still die quite often in T13+ ultimatums if I'm not rapidly cycling through my Vaal Disc, molten shield, and granite flask. How are people running this build straight up unkillable and AFKing in Juiced T16 ults? Am I missing another flask or defensive?

Again, I'm pretty new and just started like 10 days ago, so sorry if this has been addressed a bunch in the thread, but I haven't been following comments for very long. Thanks in advance.


First of all, I suggest to make your profile public so we can have a look to your charakter (Home -> Privacy Settings). In the meantime you can have look to many other characters. Here are some modified versions, like adding Impale, but I followed the guide quite close and I am happy.

1) HoP does a lot of damage! I am not sure about the ratio but when you reach high gem levels it is a lot. Maybe some of the "PoB researchers" can answer this question.

2) You will need even more. For example: I use Determination, Discipline, Herald of Purity, Clarity Lv. 1 (only for Watcher's Eye) and I also use 2x 19% rings and a Cluster Jewel with Self-Control and Uncompromising. If you want to add more Auras like Flesh and Stone, you will need to anoint your amulet with Charisma and maybe also enchant your helmet (not sure!)

3) Due to Memory Vault (gain Armour equal to reserved Mana), you want to push Mana as high as possible and make sure to use Determination! Use Grantie Flask if you want.

4) If using Darkness Enthorned, you want Mana / Energy Shield and, if needed, Resistances and #% Chance to block speed damage (you want to have 75% block chance for attack hits and spells). Cyclopean implicit is useless for CI builds, so you can try to get a corrupted one with +#% to all elemental resists, also you can buy Cluster Jewels with resistances - they can be expensive!

5+6) I assume you already use CI and your resists are 76/81/76%? If you did all Labs and use Aegis Aurora it should not be a big problem. Corrupted Blood can be easily handeled with a Flask of Staunching (Take a white Utility Flask, make it 20% Quality, roll a nice prefix and keep the suffic free - press ALT to see that - go to your Menagerie and add the suffix 'of Staunching').
I suggest to do the same with 'of Warding' to remove curses. We are not immune to curses even though we have 100% reduced effect, but red maps can have increased curse effect and that may hurt.
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Tiffiklotz wrote:
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Ravun1988 wrote:


First of all, I suggest to make your profile public so we can have a look to your charakter (Home -> Privacy Settings). In the meantime you can have look to many other characters. Here are some modified versions, like adding Impale, but I followed the guide quite close and I am happy.

1) HoP does a lot of damage! I am not sure about the ratio but when you reach high gem levels it is a lot. Maybe some of the "PoB researchers" can answer this question.

2) You will need even more. For example: I use Determination, Discipline, Herald of Purity, Clarity Lv. 1 (only for Watcher's Eye) and I also use 2x 19% rings and a Cluster Jewel with Self-Control and Uncompromising. If you want to add more Auras like Flesh and Stone, you will need to anoint your amulet with Charisma and maybe also enchant your helmet (not sure!)

3) Due to Memory Vault (gain Armour equal to reserved Mana), you want to push Mana as high as possible and make sure to use Determination! Use Grantie Flask if you want.

4) If using Darkness Enthorned, you want Mana / Energy Shield and, if needed, Resistances and #% Chance to block speed damage (you want to have 75% block chance for attack hits and spells). Cyclopean implicit is useless for CI builds, so you can try to get a corrupted one with +#% to all elemental resists, also you can buy Cluster Jewels with resistances - they can be expensive!

5+6) I assume you already use CI and your resists are 76/81/76%? If you did all Labs and use Aegis Aurora it should not be a big problem. Corrupted Blood can be easily handeled with a Flask of Staunching (Take a white Utility Flask, make it 20% Quality, roll a nice prefix and keep the suffic free - press ALT to see that - go to your Menagerie and add the suffix 'of Staunching').
I suggest to do the same with 'of Warding' to remove curses. We are not immune to curses even though we have 100% reduced effect, but red maps can have increased curse effect and that may hurt.


Thanks a bunch for the response man, I will look into getting charisma asap and I believe I still have more labs to do. I THINK I just made my character public as I checked off the hide character tab? Also, I just ran a map that had all monster hits apply ignite and died often, so I believe that is what I have been dying to lol. I will complete my labs and see if I can then get the cyclopean belt to still have high resists which will make me immune to ignite if im not mistaken.

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