[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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King_Haart wrote:
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JohnnyV76 wrote:

Just use CWDT - Holy Relic - Feeding Frenzy as this auto-summons the relic after accumulating about 3.7k damage. With glancing blows we take in a lot of damage (which we obviously out-heal with the ES on block) so if the relic dies it will be up quickly again. I never summon it manually so never have to worry about it.


What's the point of having Feeding Frenzy on the relic? Isn't it just there to buff things?


FF affects all other minions with a huge boost
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JohnnyV76 wrote:
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Ravennnnnn wrote:
The holy relic dying is definitely one of the worst parts. I usually don't bother resummoning it while mapping, reserving it for boss fights or very tough packs. I wonder if maybe those sockets could be used better for something more consistently up.


Just use CWDT - Holy Relic - Feeding Frenzy as this auto-summons the relic after accumulating about 3.7k damage. With glancing blows we take in a lot of damage (which we obviously out-heal with the ES on block) so if the relic dies it will be up quickly again. I never summon it manually so never have to worry about it.

That's another gem slot, however. I'm using that right now to run a vitality fine-tuned to reserve as much mana as possible while leaving me enough for my skills, both for the armor from the reserved mana and for the extra regen to help offset our DoT weakness.

I suppose it's worth a try considering I've complained about DPS but it's a substantial hit in tankyness.
Hi guys, how u manage to use 6link HOP alongide with determination nad discipline? I have both ring with 23% reduced, got all perks reducing mana in tree, but still I can only use 5link HOP(onslaugh, minion damage, bloodlust and empower) and to reach that point,I had to connect both auras(determ and disci) with enlightened, any ideas what Im doing wrong?
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JohnnyV76 wrote:
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VincentGraymore wrote:

HUGE wall of text :)


When checking your jewels I see you don't have any with "corrupted blood cannot be inflicted on you". I think that is also quite a bit source of your deaths. On Sirus but I noticed that some rituals also cause corrupted blood so you should really try to get that on one of the jewels.

This morning I woke up an hour before work started so did some catching up in delve while having my regular trade searches for the circle of guilt and the skin up. I managed to snipe a ring for 30c. It's not the perfect one but for the price it's great and allowed me another link on HoP. Shortly after I saw a 4R2B skin of the loyal up for 10c. I messaged the guy straight up and a bit later I got the invite. I was in delve, clicked the icon to teleport to him but I couldn't join his instance. Oh nooo... talked to the guy that I would relog and thank god he accepted my invite again and I got the armor for 10c. That leaves me some currency for other upgrades. A Shaper's touch with vuln is extremely rare so hope some more people out there will try a corrupt :)

Last league I rolled a -20% mana reservation for discipline on my helm and also got lucky on Sirus to get an awakened multistrike which allowed me to put the multistrike in the 6L HoP setup and though I am not experienced enough with PoB to check the damge it really felt they were hitting like a truck. A +1 sentinels is probably best as enchant but there are some other useful enchants for us in the big pool of enchants so it can open up other possibilities for HoP.

For people that are new to the build and struggling a bit with re-summoning... you will learn and it will be better and better. You will learn to recognize situations where you know when to desecrate and/or pop the flasks.


I am well aware I do not have immunity to corrupted blood. That has not stopped me in other leagues though and is often an end game addition or simply running with a bad jewel on such things as Sirius. It is not something I would run around with on maps. Also the uniques used in the build do not have cheap corrupted blood immunity. It also does not help that the triple beam or rather 6 beams killed me over and over and that meteor has a chance to kill me.

However, all the talk about you and some others getting lucky with your skin of the loyal etc is not helpful advice. The cheapest right now is 5,9 ex. I do not have bot or similar to tell me of the prices instantly. You can have personal luck but that kind of luck should never be a requirement for a build, and you can luck into almost every build by this mentality. Skin of the Loyal might be an item that people have lesser understanding of value (because of the socket colors) but that is also just taking an unfair price. Awakened multistrike is the most expensive gem in the game, and you should more or less have sold it for the massive profit as it would build the whole build and a second build at that. With such a gem then it should be a noticeable difference in dps. There are shaper gloves that are correct and one with a 4 link that goes for 200 chaos.

Running bosses with temporary gems for corrupted blood etc is doable but not to run around with such trash in maps for an occasional very rare occurrence is not really great exactly. It is a hassle when it happens but late on priority list. The first rings I bought was one reserved 20 and one with sentinel damage but those still cost 60+ chaos when I did buy. The ones I have now with correct mana reserved and damage, they do not enable the mana reservation needed without catalysts and this is only to be able to free up determination aura reduction on a cluster jewel. So overall I will have paid 8 exalt for the rings. It does result in more defense if I added all quality and swap cluster jewel notable but overall I take a lot of damage from almost all sources to the point where facetanking is simply not viable or a chance. A large part of this is the fact that regen is non-existent because this is energy shield with seemingly a high reliability on vaal discipline. This would be a lesser problem if the damage where much higher as mobs would die quicker and not be able to do whatever. I do not feel comfortable cycloning things but the bloodlust gem makes it more or less needed. or casting vuln self and just stay away but that makes the whole cyclone rather moot.

Even so things still does not help vs things like map mods that affect defense. I just played a map with a rotating beam ritual with lesser maximum resist and a single touch drained my ES with like 25 %. I currently only have 75 resist out of 81 possible but still that would reflect caps on a normal build. I also had a legion encounter that instantly killed me when the mobs spawned. Barans minions can still hurt a multitude of his symbol, and it is like running into a wall sometimes. Deaths do happen. These are 16 tier maps corrupted maps.

The block helps in some cases but not in all and I think that there really needs to be some way to work in either energy leech or other additional defensive layer to negative this. I have done maven 10, I have defeated Abxoth. I did kill sirius but am not at awakened level 8 yet.
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Ravennnnnn wrote:
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Saint_and_Sinner wrote:
Hi, need some help,heh..

1. How to summon sentinels? Im still in BA..and i dont have flask that i need, but either way, it seems that cycloning only spawns spiders? Need to understand what im doing wrong.

2. Spirit Offering/Molten Shell. When to use them? Bossing or regular mapping or situational wise?

3. Alternate quality gems. What i must have to make this build fully functional? Some crazy corrupted items are still way out of my league.


Once again, help please.. and thx in advance.

1. Sentinels have a chance to be summoned when you hit a rare or unique enemy, or when you kill something. While mapping they should spawn on their own as your culling strike snipes some kills. Against bosses/rares, you just cyclone them until you've spawned 4, which doesn't take long in my experience.

2. Spirit Offering I'd reserve for bosses or large clusters of enemies. Use it when you need a damage boost, I wouldn't just spam it while doing normal clear. As for Molten Shell, use it when your ES takes a large dip or you anticipate a chunky hit.

3. I wouldn't say any of the alt quality gems are strictly necessary for the build to work at the basic level, most of them are nice to have/ a bit of extra damage. If you don't have the curse on hit gloves, then maim is probably a high priority for you, but otherwise I'd leave upgrading them until you can afford to.


U know why i couldnt spawn Sentinels?

Because i had Dominating Blow socketed in my body armor -.-

Any other comment is unnecessary -.-
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Toperz123 wrote:
Hi guys, how u manage to use 6link HOP alongide with determination nad discipline? I have both ring with 23% reduced, got all perks reducing mana in tree, but still I can only use 5link HOP(onslaugh, minion damage, bloodlust and empower) and to reach that point,I had to connect both auras(determ and disci) with enlightened, any ideas what Im doing wrong?


You picked the wrong passives on top of the tree lol. You need to work towards 'Discord Artisan'.

https://i.imgur.com/TieVP8E.png
Last edited by Lunethzz#6302 on Jan 25, 2021, 6:08:33 AM
Dude, you are genious, thanks



and a shame for me to miss something that huge XD
Very nice and detailled build. Works perfect in HC Ritual.

I guess you could add a leveling guide explaining what items to look for until getting key items like the Fang and Aegis.

I have a lot of fun watching my spiders cleaning the entire screen and melting bosses while I spin for the win.

Thanks a lot and stay safe !
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VincentGraymore wrote:
I am well aware I do not have immunity to corrupted blood. That has not stopped me in other leagues though and is often an end game addition or simply running with a bad jewel on such things as Sirius. It is not something I would run around with on maps. Also the uniques used in the build do not have cheap corrupted blood immunity. It also does not help that the triple beam or rather 6 beams killed me over and over and that meteor has a chance to kill me.


Perhaps the build is not suiting you and you are better of with a different one. It would be weird if every PoE player loved the same build :)

Still, it's almost as if you are defending against the build coming up with arguments why the build is not so good. I bought an energised armour jewel with corrupted blood so you have both a useful jewel (a watcher's eye is imho something for later) and corrupted blood immunity. It's not that expensive. Not having this is what may be killing you in the Sirus fight. I have done almost all Sirus runs deathless last league except 1 where i mis-clicked and walked back into the 3 circles. I haven't done any Sirus fights yet this league as I have to divide my time between work / family and PoE!

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VincentGraymore wrote:

However, all the talk about you and some others getting lucky with your skin of the loyal etc is not helpful advice.


I understand... it's not that fun to see people snatching good items for cheap and I have missed several cheap ones before but the point of this is that you should be patient and always have the search on when you are playing and be fast when you get the trade alert sound. Still, even if you pay a couple exalts for it... it's still an item that is useful in the endgame.

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VincentGraymore wrote:

Barans minions can still hurt a multitude of his symbol, and it is like running into a wall sometimes. Deaths do happen. These are 16 tier maps corrupted maps.


I hate baran maps as well. Somehow those mobs just hurt us a lot. I remember from last league that it got better as my ES and Armor as well as my awareness in those maps increased. There are also T16 map mods that are dangerous so you cannot go in and AFK it :)

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VincentGraymore wrote:

The block helps in some cases but not in all and I think that there really needs to be some way to work in either energy leech or other additional defensive layer to negative this. I have done maven 10, I have defeated Abxoth. I did kill sirius but am not at awakened level 8 yet.


I made lvl100 with this build last league for the first time ever so it has to be good! I admit that I did most of the 99 > 100 levelling in heists which this build handles really well. We hardly talk about the huge curse effect reduction we have this league and I think it really helps. Temporal Chains maps are not even noticeable so overall it helps survivability a lot. I do suspect that the absence of the auto-ailment removal is causing additional deaths but with a little effort getting to lvl99 should be possible this league.

Perhaps you should listen a bit more to the people that have experience with the build and give advice which is meant to help you and not to claim we know better. And still, if you still don't like it enough than the build may not suit you well. There are tons of strong builds out there which may suit your needs and playstyle better.
You don’t stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing.
I'm currently leveling this with a tabula and I'm wondering what other gems I should put in my dominating blow 6 link besides multistrike and melee splash?

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