[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS
" The anoint is done at Cassia (blight girl) and it costs 3 cheap oils. About 10c total if I remember correctly. | |
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Hello,
I'm very sorry for asking stupid questions, but it seems like i misunderstood concept or doing something completely wrong. The case is that my damage complete trash, i copy paste original build with little worse gears, but yet PoB shows only 70K dps per summon while original one shows almost 600K. I do understand that gears might play significant role in damage difference but not in such gigantic scale. I barely can do tier 12+ maps due to luck of dmg, fight with certain bosses become insanely long and difficult. If there is some advanced players who might have some free time to have a quick look into my mess i would be highly appreciate tips where to look at to fix my build. Thanks in advance. Here is the build gears:
Spoiler
Last edited by EmperorVladI on Jan 24, 2021, 7:36:02 AM
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" The first thing I notice is you need a source of bleed for bloodlust support to do anything. Since you don't have the corruption on your gloves, you don't have vulnerability curse to do that for you. This means your bloodlust support does nothing. The PoB also has a bunch of configurations set, regarding stuff like buffs being up, flasks active, etc. You can also get better damage by getting the increased damage version of the rings, instead of physical damage reduction. |
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" Really appreciate your tip regarding vulnerability, i just noticed how stupid that mistake was. However regarding PoB, I'm quite confident that I did use buffs, flasks and other sort of settings to calc proper damage, due to fact that I was researching and copying original one with decent efforts. Although, even if I did a mistake with PoB calculations, still I barely can do 12+ tier maps and feel lack of dmg really well. |
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" Your profile is private so we can't import your character into PoB to check but make sure you have a minion Herald cluster jewel with at least Cult-leader (Disciples is a later upgrade). This gives a fair bit of damage. Additionally, you want to upgrade your rings to reservation and sentinel damage versions. If you're calculating spiders, swap Melee Splash for Melee Physical damage - it's a fair increase in damage. Make sure you have at least 5 allies for the "# of Nearby Allies," Bleed if you a bleed source, Intimidate, Feeding Frenzy and Signal Prey checked. My PoB says with all these conditions met, my HoP does ~395k default attack, ~265k for Slam, and 534k for Crusade slam -- and this is with me missing Disciples on my cluster jewel. Disciples would bring the numbers to 402k/269k/544k which isn't a big numerical change but more QOL. My Spiders are ~45k (total DPS) each; multiple by 20 that's about 900k. Last edited by おねえちゃん on Jan 24, 2021, 9:49:25 AM
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You can look at exactly how your DPS is calculated by going to the calculations tab in PoB and comparing that to the guide's PoB, that's probably the easiest way to spot where else you're lacking damage.
To be clear, you're looking at the HoP minions specifically, not the spiders? Or are you also unsatisfied with the spider's damage? In my experience, they do most of the map clearing. |
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" U can use divergent maim for bleed | |
" @vatinas | |
" My apologise for profile settings I will google how to make it public right after following message. I did prioritise disciple due to fact that i was trying to craft jewel myself run out of fossils and decided to stop on disciple outcome in craft, but considering that i will add cult-leader eventually in future. Anyway after your tip i will change disciple jewel with cult leader. However, i still can not understand why do i have such gigantic lack of damage. " I do look at sentinels dmg, as long as i understand they are the main source of damage, although as i mentioned earlier, I simple can not go above tier 12 maps, and even tier 11-12 which is the bottom of red maps is complete disaster for me. Boss fights are insanely long and I'm dying quite often even with 20 spiders and 4 sentinels summoned. I mention all above to highlight the fact that even if i did PoB calculations wrong, there is significant lack of damage based on perception that support my PoB calculations. |
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Okay. So I am gonna give my experience of playing with this build as a starter and up to tier 16 maps
The leveling progress had its ups and downs. Then came mapping. With the dagger being so expensive I had to farm maps for a while and dominating blow worked good but still had me struggling more than a friend that played a spell dps build. Map tier 5 was dangerous and those maps killed me sometimes. Then I got the dagger which wrecked things and I focused on building defense. The elderslayers were easy except al hazim as I did not really have early chaos resist, ignoring building it for the switch to CI. Playing the build and keeping an eye on prices I found that this build were awfully expensive to get certain things to start rolling. The dagger cost 125 Chaos on day 2 and each other piece except the boots were expensive early on and some still is. The rings were very expensive and still are. There were no memory vault on sale for a "long time" (the first days), like the rings and the gloves. In the end I had a big problem with chaos damage and with having rather poor health (3-4 k) combined with a weak (1-2 k) ES I died a few times too much I think. I did have vaal molten shell and discipline. The shield do block a lot, but the uptime was a glaring problem as I found myself in the middle of a pack of monsters trying to bleed them up (things like a ritual) and then sudden getting onehited from something or drained by several dots (barans map dots and his minions can really hurt). I switched to ES and CI when I had around 4 K ES. It did help a lot for various situations, but it came at the cost of delaying buying rings. Finally, I now have 6,7 K ES. Skin of the loyal with correct colors (which was expensive, seeing people here grabbing a cheap one was lucky, I constantly checked but 4 red and 2 blue was always several exalted, got mine for 4 ex). 75 % block and 72 % spellblock. 2 rings with damage and 1 of them with correct reserved mana reduction (but I still use Uncompromising Armour Notable passive skill that reduce determination aura reservation to have 6 link HoP, still this make me has less survivable because of less reserved mana, I am aware of that). Fertile catalysts are so expensive that they add 1 exalt to each ring. I have the same gems not yet fully leveled, but I also lack an empower lv 4 as it is only level 3 and level 4 is very expensive. I have capped resists and 52 K armor without pot. The damage is not there yet. If I have calculated estimates correctly (according to PoB) 3,3 M dps. Before reaching this damage and with a little less defenses I went to fight the first Sirius. I went into a fight with Sirius awakened 5 and boy it did not work well. The first thing I decided to do was to try and "facetank" things. The first thing that happened was that I wanted to see if I could take a meteor but died from full EZ in the impact. I figured I need to have molten shell up. Then by playing more or less "normally" I got the last phase, a phase that I often fear because of his stupid triple beam. This time I thought that it should be easier than other builds. I did survive the first time he used one on me but the second time he did 2 in more or less a quick row and I died. Repeat this a few times. I have no idea if I got unlucky but several times it seemed that I did not block any of the hits. I generally hate fighting him because I have a knack of using my movement skills to dodge Sirius beams by the vocal warning only to jump into them or similar because I jumped in his direction or I was a little to quick. I am very well aware that I suck at this fight, which is a reason I looked for builds and found this thinking I could survive early on. My damage was so low the fight seemed to take forever, and I failed resummon a few times which mess ups the fight completely. Resummoning things in boss battles is a struggle if one is not attentive. I had to discover that I had to apply mark the prey to get my summons away from the worms but that mark is hard to see if it is still there if you are cycloning on the mob/boss and casting it in general in any fight is clunky. Desecrate and then worms randomly plopping out. Without a target it is more or less randomly luck if you manage to get a worm between phases/attacks, something that is hard to unlearn wanting to do. The mark is hard to use against small bosses and especially annoying to use against yellow mobs. Resummoning works good in packs of lesser minions. I am not used to weapon swapping at all, and it feels clunky to do that to kill the spiders but is a learning thing I guess. Desecrate and spirit offering on manual command is great but something I unlearned to do myself by playing builds that cast them themselves (trigger on channeling or damage taken). I play here with a cast on stun. Then there is the general weakness that plagued me throughout the game: DoTs. This was a severe drawback. Being on tier 14-16 maps I do die. A lot more than I do with summon builds I generally play (though golem aura was rather op last league). The reason DoTs destroy me is 2. Even with vaal discipline it might not be enough because even with increased duration some events takes to long time, and it is a vaal skill limiting the usage severely. I have yet to buy the flask as it is not prioritized. Ground effects being incredibly dangerous. Then bleed etc is generally not a problem, except when the pots are empty, but in mavens arena there are sometimes bosses that do not spawn anything to regen pots on and this can be in other boss fights. An example is Lycian that can apply a very strong bleed that simply drained me in like 2 seconds and standing still is hard to learn to do and the fight has him teleporting and thus draining time from my limited useage skills. I am not great at using vaal skills in general but my summon builds often do have vaal discipline but not needing increased duration nor having it as somewhat of a must to counter dots as it feels like here. Without leech, it feels not as tanky and the regen every 4 second is not dependable unless one adapt the usual flee to regen. Then I actually got to think about this and looking at my friends build as an example. He goes with mind over matter and has 11+k mana and 5+ k combined EZ and life. He has both ability to regen hp with pot, mana is regenerated very quickly, and he has energy shield leeched on spells. Compared to that my build has more or less nothing against dots. His only drawback is a lack of armor but with a pot and stubborn Student notable he still has enough to not take that much damage. His damage is several multipliers higher and his need for different amounts of skills is less. He does not need to bleed enemies in melee range to get one gem to even work. We can also consider that his build has a higher oneshot potential as his one hit hp is higher (though weaker against physical because of the reduction) for cheaper and his mana pool can go even higher and have 40-60 % damage taken from mana. Heart of the grove was a nightmare where I wiped (mainly because damage was so low, and she darts around on the field, respawning with ES and some summons are dangerous). Sirius, I did not see anything better with this build against him and dying from a hit at tier 5 do feel like a warning sign. There were also some tier 16 maps where bosses hit so hard in slams that I die from full HP if I failed to time molten shell (the window that is down). In general, I cannot tank things in many situations probably because of map mods. Abyss monsters spawn with several mods with damage are sneaking moments that have killed me. With damage being somewhat low (I have not yet perfected any and all damage) the fights can drag out. Ritual also has some dots and some hard hitting encounters that I simply cannot take or outlive unless I play avoiding, like in any build. Cyclone is small, so it feels like I have to be on enemies. Maybe I am just not great at playing (I am by no means an expert) or in general have missed something very important. My conclusion is that this build goes a lot for defense yet does not reach the levels where one can play badly and still get away with everything. Maps with 8 mods is something I have to look at and consider if I do survive or will take to long to complete. Most of the time there is no problem. Most of the time things are very relaxing. I am better off in regard to defensive mechanics, but I feel like I am falling behind as the damage is rather low and costly to start (the build is cheaper than getting perfect rare items but the start was very expensive). It does not seem to have the biggest of all progression either as the items do cap out at rather low damage compared to builds reaching 20 M+. I also do not use Shield charge, never really liked that movement. I have yet to cap out the build in any regard but in general this is my experience. It is not to shit on the build or to say it is crap. This is feedback I am giving. The build works good but the build to get damage is hard/expensive and was a race that made it feel like I was always behind, and I do not feel invincible and that makes it hard to judge when and where to actually go for tanking rather than just learning to dodge and stay away from danger like always otherwise. Perhaps when I do get to the dps of 4 M+ it will work better. Overall it is a rather fun build when it all works and I do like having all the small spiders, I wished they could be the main skill instead. It was really great to have a PoB with level specifics etc. I am trying to get to the point of where everything is supposed to work. I have not yet achieved everything in your guide (getting gloves with right colors and vuln on hit (self cast right now) as one example, the other one being having all the correct catalysts, empower 4 etc). I am well aware I am also playing this build a little "cheapskate" as I am not constantly selling everything for however little nor buy instantly as I generally scout prices for a little while. |
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