I only said that after you told me I'm wrong after I provided proof which I spent time on as well. When you decided to dismiss evidence and tell me I'm wrong straight up, that's when I'll say you're lying. PoB is math, math doesn't have preferences or bias, it just gives you the numbers. I didn't make those up.
You are the one dismissing evidence.
You told me that Jugg is "actually superior in both damage and life/mitigation " (Page 33):
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Xavathos wrote:
Actually, I did some calculations on POB and switched out some gear (as this is necessary to fix the fire res gap between Jugg and Chieftain and I've found that Jugg is actually superior in both damage and life/mitigation total. Regen is questionable.
I found it bizarre because I already did this comparaison many times. So I asked for PoB links (page 33) :
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fjtheknight wrote:
Would you please share PoB links of the Chieftain and Juggernaut builds?
I just opened PoB, calculated dps for all the links you gave me, and posted the results (page 35) and you keep telling me that I'm telling you're wrong with no evidence.
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fjtheknight wrote:
You gave me these links (for Consecrated ground not Molten strike :D ):
Second two links:
Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45 => dps = 494731
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT => dps = 475240 (even if you use xoph's blood here, Chief dps > jugg dps)
=> Chief > Jugg
Unless my brain is lagging :D, which is highly possible btw, Chieftain is always superior to Juggernaut, no?
EDIT:
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Xavathos wrote:
As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives)
If you throw in Xoph's Blood on a Jugg, I will throw in a 10 ex rare amulet on Chief, and Chief wins again ^^
After that, and when you found that you were wrong, you told me (page 35)
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Xavathos wrote:
Okay, show me a 10ex amulet that will beat Xoph's and I'll tell you you're right. :)
and then start to accusing me of just " throwing assumptions around" (page 35)
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Xavathos wrote:
Have you even tried this? Because I think you're just throwing assumptions around now...
You say in both my tests Chief is better, which it is I guess marginally, if you say 20k dps on 500k is better then sure. But you're forgetting that when I put Xoph's on Juggernaut, his DPS is 650-700k and you're still at 500 WITH an elder amulet. This is YOUR gear. Unless your gear is bad, you're missing something crucial here, it's called 200k DPS. And that Jugg is more tanky, we've already established, so again, show me where this magical amulet is that will put Chief back on top, because I'm very curious.
But you are the one who's throwing assumptions because with a proper elder amulet, chieftain dps is higher than juggernaut dps with Xoph's blood as I showed you later because you asked for it.
I provided you with a 2 ex elder amulet that beats Xoph's Blood in turm of dps (page 36)
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fjtheknight wrote:
PoB :
Chieftain : https://pastebin.com/Pww8ceq4
Juggernaut : https://pastebin.com/A2N9LicW
Do not forget that you will need 100% fire resistance on your items, which is probably another 10 exalts because you will need triple resistance rares which are very expensive. So why spend 20 extra exalts for almost nothing?
Then, you wrote this (page 36)
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Xavathos wrote:
Challenge accepted, when I get home.
After you realized that I was right again, you came up with the story of "unrealistic end-game build" (page 37)
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Xavathos wrote:
Alright, so I've made, since we're going there now, an unrealistic end-game build with pretty much GG gear for both classes with an (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) optimised passive tree. Feel free to work your own Molten Strike setup into this if you want, I don't plan to use it at all.
And even with the new links you provided, nothing in them proved that Juggernaut is better than Chieftain in terms of dps.
After I replied to every point you mentioned, you told me that I "brought a 100ex amulet into the discussion" which I clearly did not. (page 37)
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Xavathos wrote:
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fjtheknight wrote:
You already did when you brought a 100ex amulet into the discussion on how Chieftain's damage would be better. Well, look for yourself, it's not.
You already did when you brought a 100ex amulet into the discussion on how Chieftain's damage would be better. Well, look for yourself, it's not.
and then started to accuse me of lying and being "unbelievably biased that it's becoming really frustrating to try to make " me "see things"
After I replied to all of the points you mentioned, you accused me of being disrespectful.
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Xavathos wrote:
I've been asking you constantly to show me why you think I'm wrong, yet you don't. You just tell me I'm wrong and continue telling others Chief is best. WHY?
I did. I gave you evidences, I calculated dps from links you gave me and linked back the results, I provided a cheap amulet that beats Xoph's Blood, and yet, you're still accusing me of refusing evidence and math, and of being unbelievably biased. Can't you see who's the one who's unbelievably biased?
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Xavathos wrote:
I've spent more than an hour each time making these PoB comparisons as proof to show you that the difference is minimal at best, everyone can see that. So follow your own advice and show me evidence of how wrong I am and I will gladly admit it publicly. Or don't and just play your build in peace and stop this mud throwing contest. I'm sure you have better things to do. :)
I have been providing evidence that you were wrong, yet you try everytime to come up with new conditions just to avoid evidence I provided, and keep telling that "every one can see I spent a lot of time on calculating this". I can spend my entire life working on a project that does nothing.
I did change a few things however, since I can't find an EC belt I am using Death's Door with 2% regen on recent hit (first enchant yay!) and I have been using Hrimnor's because it fits this build REALLY well, freeze immunity and extra fire damage with a good chunk of health and resistance, topped off with 3 extra MS projectiles.
I currently sit at 6.5k life and Shaper is childs play with this build, Uber Elder I did not manage to beat due to the insane damage and multitasking of the fight, I probably need some more experience. Map clearing is decent, far from optimal but it's far from tedious.
The one big issue I have with this build; gaining/maintaining endurance charges.
Enduring cry just doesn't do a good enough to maintain the charges for me.
The Chieftain only gets effective EC's on killing stuff, so killing bosses can be a real nightmare if you lose them or need to build them up.
One big tip I want to give to everyone, get yourself two weapons with the property: Gain an endurance charge every X seconds while stationary
Having these in your secondary setup means you can get yourself some free EC's before a boss fight, it only takes 20 seconds of standing still.
Thank you for your feedback and sorry for the late reply. Belts can no longer get +1 EC. They changed the corruption mods list and now boots can have +1 EC.
I think I just found a better solution to build up ECs than Ralakesh's impatience.
There is an elder mod that gives you 1 EC per 4 seconds while stationary, and this mod can be found on one handed swords. So if we dual wield them, we will just need 16 seconds to build up 8 ECs, or 4 seconds to refrech their duration. Items with this mod are cheap, just swap items before fight, build up ECs in 16 seconds and you're good!
How are we proccing arakaali recovery without Immortal call? Or are we just using it for the 5% less degen?
If you take damage from a hit, the degen of Nebuloch will apply for 4 secs. If you don't take any more hits after, it will fall off and proc the Arakaali life recovery buff for 4 seconds as you stopped taking damage over time recently.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos#5130 on Sep 16, 2018, 8:00:51 PM
How are we proccing arakaali recovery without Immortal call? Or are we just using it for the 5% less degen?
Just swap weapons. Degen from Nebuloch and Blood Rage stops immediately. The most usefull effects of Arakaali are the shock effect and duration reductions and the less degen.
Hi, may I ask how did you sustain your mana? I was looking at the PoB but I don't see it in the skill tree or the items you're using. So, I got confused. I'm currently testing out this build atm.
Last edited by bakeedpotatoo#1279 on Sep 17, 2018, 8:02:26 AM
Hi, may I ask how did you sustain your mana? I was looking at the PoB but I don't see it in the skill tree or the items you're using. So, I got confused. I'm currently testing out this build atm.
Hi, may I ask how did you sustain your mana? I was looking at the PoB but I don't see it in the skill tree or the items you're using. So, I got confused. I'm currently testing out this build atm.
Take the Life and Mana leech node (duelist area)
To add to that (and damage) you can also work in Rallying Cry, which lasts pretty long when linked to Increased Duration and provides a steady enough flow of mana to at least keep attacking. It also lets you Leap Slam without the need for Blood Magic. :)
This along side the leech of course. The leech is mandatory.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
