[3.5]FJTHEBEAST| DW Nebuloch Chieftain Molten Strike |90% Dmg Mitigation|9M Shaper DPS| All content

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fjtheknight wrote:

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grimchip wrote:

Use Molten strike with anc call and melee splash, it's really just as good for clear, this coming from a guy who runs fully sextanted zana modded corrupted t16's all day.

finally, this is for the OP of this build. You can use anc call (with always attack without moving selected) and attack a boss in the deadzone to give up the melee hit and proc double the magma balls

Thank you for your advice. This is actually what I did to beat Uber Elder. However, I switched to anc call because my laptop is crap and I wasn't aiming well because of the lags and freezes and the fight was a lot easier. I will update PoB links. Thank you!

EDIT: How do you find this build compared to other similar builds (price/quality/ performance ratio)?

EDIT2: Maybe Increased AoE is better than Conc Effect for mapping?

yeah I used anc call for uber elder because it allows me to deal with the adds better, it allows me to not have to be positioned directly on top of either of the bosses to hit them, giving me more freedom in movement. and allowed me to do more damage in the moments I had to burst by sitting in the deadzone. Just overall anc call is superior in 95% of situations.

I find this build to be one of the strongest builds I've ever played. The clear is like 6/10 compared to the TS/CA meta, but the benefit of being able to do all bosses/content without dieing far outweighs the less then ideal clear speed. Not to mention if you encounter map mods that make the monsters significantly more tanky, this builds clear quickly outscales those builds due to it's insane overkill damage with the balls.

EDIT: When you ask me about price, I always think about how expensive this build will be at the beginning of the league, since in my opinion that is the most important part of the league. And the answer is, no, it can function without any of the high price uniques and is a very powerful build early on without them. If you were to funnel all of your currency to acquire nebulochs (Imo the health degen being cut in half, puts these weapons over the top) and just use a rare chest/rare rings and a 2 ms enchant. you'd be perfectly fine and probably able to kill shaper. The build has no required uniques other then the incredibly cheap ms jewels. Which is nice.

Increased AE could very well be better for mapping, The nature of MS's ridiculously high damage output means it has plenty of damage to spare for faster clear. I've been perfectly content with conc effect though, will try AE at some point.

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Xavathos wrote:

Hey there Grimchip, thanks for the feedback.

I'm not entirely certain whether or not PoB factors in the Ngamahu passive or not. I've been wondering about this myself ever since I saw it. It doesn't factor in the Undeniable's 30% accuracy and damage after you've crit recently either, unless you have a jewel that has "attack speed after you've crit recently" because that's when PoB gives you a check box to tick and it'll apply both.

Again, not sure if PoB counts the 21% phys to fire from Ngamahu. If it doesn't, very good point damage-wise in favor of Chief. But I'll have to be sure it doesn't, somehow.

About Consecrated Path; You're absolutely right. The deeper I've gotten into the build, the more apparent the bug has become. When your attack speed gets higher, you start noticing you're slamming the ground so much when nothing near you is alive still. The best way to describe it is comparing it to having a stationary Multristrike linked or something.

I hope they'll fix that sometime, but right now it's really annoying and slows the skill down in maps quite a bit. I'll try your molten strike suggestion with ancestral call, see if I like that more. Cheers! :)

Make sure you use melee splash, I really can't overstate that. It causes mobs to "pop" with just the melee hit and lets balls finish up any stragglers.

it doesn't factor in the ngmahu because it's in red, anything in red in pob is not factored in at all. If it's not in red that means it has coding behind it to make sure it is factored in (IE you wondering about jug 30% damage being included, it is) It doesn't give you a checkbox to tick I assume because the jug talent is hardcoded to assume you've crit in the past 8 seconds unless you can't crit. You can see they did the same thing for elemental overload, which gives you the damage but no checkbox. But taking RT will disable ele overload.

Also, i redid my evaluation with jug and found that it is only like 15% behind in dps, if you have a xophs blood that is.

either way it looks like jug ends up with less life nodes (because more passives for avatar of fire/ele overload) or less damage nodes, which put it even farther behind then chieftan in damage/life. Also about 600 less regen, not including jugs phys regen passive.

I'll say that mapping/delving/bossing the only time i died was when my endurance charges fell of. So arguably if you die even once at 94 and being jug would have prevented that death to endurance charges not falling off or because of the higher defenses, jug is a clear winner in that case.

i think that early on chieftan is superior because of the ease of capping fire resis and the free xophs. But late game when you have a ton of damage and can afford to lose some. Gaining the extra survivability with jug is probably more then worth it.

Either way both ascendancies are good and this build is so overpowered that it won't make a huge difference either way.

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Xavathos wrote:

You already did when you brought a 100ex amulet into the discussion on how Chieftain's damage would be better. Well, look for yourself, it's not.

No I didn't. The amulet I brought into the discussion is 2ex.

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Xavathos wrote:

When your regen is higher than your degen, you're on full life. If ANY build can make use of this gem, it's us with our massive regen.

Ok thank you for clarifying this. However, Unwavering Stance will make it hard to fully benifit from DoFL.

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Xavathos wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

5) As I mentioned before, more damage mitigation does not necessarily mean better defenses.

Oh really? So what's defense to you then? Having more exalts in your stash? Better looking MTX? More pets in your hideout? I think defenses are all about mitigation and effective HP, but we might be playing an entirely different game here.

Oops sorry, I meant survivability. And survivability depends on many factors, not only damage mitigation.

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Xavathos wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

10) How is chieftain more expensive? I know that he needs a good Elder amulet, but it doesn't mean that it has to be more expensive than Xoph's Blood to beat Juggernaut.

Look at the amulet in the build. That thing is worth let's say a little bit more than 10ex that Xoph's Blood would cost you. The rest of the gear is also crazy expensive but they are both using that so it's equal. Still, a gap of 100+ ex. Remove that for something worth 10ex and you'll see the difference only getting bigger in favor of the Jugg.

Not true at all. You don't need a 100+ ex amulet to make chieftain better than juggernaut. With just 2ex amulet, chieftain is better damage wise. A 10 ex amulet will add a lot of defenses in addition to damage.

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Xavathos wrote:

I wonder why I bother sometimes, honestly.

Me too, honestly.

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Xavathos wrote:

You're so unbelievably biased that it's becoming really frustrating to try to make you see things. You're boasting feedback in your guide, but all I see is people praising you. When you get real feedback that could change something like I'm trying to provide, you're putting up this wall and acting like I'm crazy.

You're so unbelievably biased that it's becoming really frustrating to try to make you see things. When you get real feedback that could change something like I'm trying to provide, you're putting up this wall and acting like I'm crazy.

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Xavathos wrote:

You're straight up lying to your audience when you say Chieftain is the "cheapest option" it is clearly not. The game is expensive at GG levels but neither builds require any of that and neither class outshines one another by a great margin at any level of gear, as you can see in my tests.

So you now accuse me of lying when I say Chieftain is the "Cheapest option". I am not the one trying to spend extra 20 exalts for nothing. You're straight up lying to the audience when you say Chieftain is not the "cheapest option", it is clearly .

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Xavathos wrote:

Your argument about this being a molten strike build or not is irrelevant. Those skills are interchangeable. You can slap both skills onto both classes and neither Chief nor Juggernaut will have anything specific in their passives to make any difference at all, hence irrelevant to the comparison.

This is a Molten Strike build. If Chieftain has 7% more damage than Juggernaut, and Chieftain deals 700k dps on Consecrated Path, then the difference between the two builds would be about 50k dps, which is insignificant. However, with same gear and tree, Chieftain deals 7M dps on Molten Strike, and the difference would be 500k dps, which is a lot, compared to how much life Shaper has (about 20M, so 2.5% for MS, and 0.25% for CP).

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Xavathos wrote:

You said with GG gear Chief wins, so I took the challenge and proved it's not. You can deny it all you want, but my numbers are there for everyone to see.

The only thing you proved is that you're wrong.

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Xavathos wrote:

It really doesn't matter at all in the end, it's your build, your guide, your choice. But the way you handle feedback is extremely disappointing. You're talking a lot, but you're not showing any evidence to back it up. I've been playing and creating builds since 2013, I know what I'm doing, yet you're dismissing my opinion like it's nothing based on no more than personal bias.

Look, I have no problem with being wrong. I am humain and I make misakes. You can see how many people corrected my mistakes and helped me optimize the build, and I thanked them for their help without a single problem. If I am wrong I would say it straight away. My build or not, I don't care. If something has to be fixed, I just fix it.

I am not dismissing your opinion like it's nothing based on no more than personal bias. I dismiss noone's opinion. It only needs to be logical and well argumented. So please, open PoB links you provided, replace Xoph's Blood with a 2 ex rare amulet with added flat phys damage and % of phys dmg gained as fire, or make it a 10 ex amulet and add some life and resistance, easy win for Chieftain (wihtout even factoring Ngamahu passive). However, if you would have problems maintaining ECs, just play juggernaut, easy.

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Xavathos wrote:

Well, I'll just consider myself dismissed then. G'day.

You're welcome anytime.

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grimchip wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Hey there Grimchip, thanks for the feedback.

I'm not entirely certain whether or not PoB factors in the Ngamahu passive or not. I've been wondering about this myself ever since I saw it. It doesn't factor in the Undeniable's 30% accuracy and damage after you've crit recently either, unless you have a jewel that has "attack speed after you've crit recently" because that's when PoB gives you a check box to tick and it'll apply both.

Again, not sure if PoB counts the 21% phys to fire from Ngamahu. If it doesn't, very good point damage-wise in favor of Chief. But I'll have to be sure it doesn't, somehow.

About Consecrated Path; You're absolutely right. The deeper I've gotten into the build, the more apparent the bug has become. When your attack speed gets higher, you start noticing you're slamming the ground so much when nothing near you is alive still. The best way to describe it is comparing it to having a stationary Multristrike linked or something.

I hope they'll fix that sometime, but right now it's really annoying and slows the skill down in maps quite a bit. I'll try your molten strike suggestion with ancestral call, see if I like that more. Cheers! :)

Make sure you use melee splash, I really can't overstate that. It causes mobs to "pop" with just the melee hit and lets balls finish up any stragglers.

it doesn't factor in the ngmahu because it's in red, anything in red in pob is not factored in at all. If it's not in red that means it has coding behind it to make sure it is factored in (IE you wondering about jug 30% damage being included, it is) It doesn't give you a checkbox to tick I assume because the jug talent is hardcoded to assume you've crit in the past 8 seconds unless you can't crit. You can see they did the same thing for elemental overload, which gives you the damage but no checkbox. But taking RT will disable ele overload.

Also, i redid my evaluation with jug and found that it is only like 15% behind in dps, if you have a xophs blood that is.

either way it looks like jug ends up with less life nodes (because more passives for avatar of fire/ele overload) or less damage nodes, which put it even farther behind then chieftan in damage/life. Also about 600 less regen, not including jugs phys regen passive.

I'll say that mapping/delving/bossing the only time i died was when my endurance charges fell of. So arguably if you die even once at 94 and being jug would have prevented that death to endurance charges not falling off or because of the higher defenses, jug is a clear winner in that case.

i think that early on chieftan is superior because of the ease of capping fire resis and the free xophs. But late game when you have a ton of damage and can afford to lose some. Gaining the extra survivability with jug is probably more then worth it.

Either way both ascendancies are good and this build is so overpowered that it won't make a huge difference either way.

Thank you for clarifying that for me, Grim. I did know that EO gets added regardless of a checkbox or not, and RT disables it (as you can't crit anymore) but I didn't know that the physical to fire 3 sec buff of Chieftain wasn't counted into the DPS because it is in red.

That puts the Chief in my last test on PoB at 1.33M DPS and 50k ahead on Juggernaut, so Chief wins at life, regen and DPS, while Juggernaut wins at mitigation, charge generation.

As you pointed out, neither are far apart in any field. Unlike FJ is claiming, the Chief does not do much more damage than the Juggernaut at budget, because his elder amulet only has DPS. If you want life/res on that as well it's no longer 2ex. Apples and oranges.

Also when you get to the stage of the game where you do more than 1M DPS on the melee strike alone, a 50k difference is going to fall to nothing compared to the added survivability and much easier to sustain charges, which you and me both realise the importance of.

The choice, as always, is up to the player. Either way, it's going to rip up all the content in the game.

Thanks for the input, Grim, it's much appreciated. I'm running molten with melee splash now as you said and it's much easier and just as fast clearing maps. It also forces me to leap slam all the time, applying fortify non-stop for extra defenses, that with consec path I'd often forgo. Cheers. :)

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fjtheknight wrote:

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Ugh. I've respected you thus far, I would have at least expected the same in return, but now you're just resorting to mirroring my words like a child. I'm quite done with you. Good luck, Chief.

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Xavathos wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

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Ugh. I've respected you thus far, I would have at least expected the same in return, but now you're just resorting to mirroring my words like a child. I'm quite done with you. Good luck, Chief.

Telling people I'm lying is respect!

I learnt respect from you bro :)

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Xavathos wrote:

"Oh really? So what's defense to you then? Having more exalts in your stash? Better looking MTX? More pets in your hideout? "

"Quality of life... just ignore everything else mentioned and say that your class wins. Sigh. I wonder why I bother sometimes, honestly."

"You're so unbelievably biased that it's becoming really frustrating to try to make you see things. You're boasting feedback in your guide, but all I see is people praising you. When you get real feedback that could change something like I'm trying to provide, you're putting up this wall and acting like I'm crazy."

"You're straight up lying to your audience when you say Chieftain is the "cheapest option" it is clearly not."

"You can deny it all you want, but my numbers are there for everyone to see."

"You're talking a lot, but you're not showing any evidence to back it up. I've been playing and creating builds since 2013, I know what I'm doing, yet you're dismissing my opinion like it's nothing based on no more than personal bias."

As if you are the only player who's been been playing the game this long and you're the only one knowing what he's doing. You give no evidence and when I show you're wrong you just accuse me of lying.

Thank you for all the time I have waisted for nothing.

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grimchip wrote:

yeah I used anc call for uber elder because it allows me to deal with the adds better, it allows me to not have to be positioned directly on top of either of the bosses to hit them, giving me more freedom in movement. and allowed me to do more damage in the moments I had to burst by sitting in the deadzone. Just overall anc call is superior in 95% of situations.

I find this build to be one of the strongest builds I've ever played. The clear is like 6/10 compared to the TS/CA meta, but the benefit of being able to do all bosses/content without dieing far outweighs the less then ideal clear speed. Not to mention if you encounter map mods that make the monsters significantly more tanky, this builds clear quickly outscales those builds due to it's insane overkill damage with the balls.

EDIT: When you ask me about price, I always think about how expensive this build will be at the beginning of the league, since in my opinion that is the most important part of the league. And the answer is, no, it can function without any of the high price uniques and is a very powerful build early on without them. If you were to funnel all of your currency to acquire nebulochs (Imo the health degen being cut in half, puts these weapons over the top) and just use a rare chest/rare rings and a 2 ms enchant. you'd be perfectly fine and probably able to kill shaper. The build has no required uniques other then the incredibly cheap ms jewels. Which is nice.

Increased AE could very well be better for mapping, The nature of MS's ridiculously high damage output means it has plenty of damage to spare for faster clear. I've been perfectly content with conc effect though, will try AE at some point.

Thank you very much! I have beaten Shaper myself without Loreweave, Abyssus, or the elder amulet. There is also someone who did Uber Elder without them!

I would like to know why did your ECs fell of (the time you died). Was it when you were delving and found no monster to refresh their duration or because of something else?
I was thinking that The Red Dream could be a great way to sustain ECs

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fjtheknight wrote:

Telling people I'm lying is respect!

I learnt respect from you bro :)

As if you are the only player who's been been playing the game this long and you're the only one knowing what he's doing. You give no evidence and when I show you're wrong you just accuse me of lying.

Thank you for all the time I have waisted for nothing.

I only said that after you told me I'm wrong after I provided proof which I spent time on as well. When you decided to dismiss evidence and tell me I'm wrong straight up, that's when I'll say you're lying. PoB is math, math doesn't have preferences or bias, it just gives you the numbers. I didn't make those up.

Of course I'm not the only player that's played this long and of course I can make mistakes. I do it all the time, that's how I learn. Grim has pointed out a few things I got wrong and I acknowledged it. I'm not afraid to be wrong. I've been asking you constantly to show me why you think I'm wrong, yet you don't. You just tell me I'm wrong and continue telling others Chief is best. WHY?

I've spent more than an hour each time making these PoB comparisons as proof to show you that the difference is minimal at best, everyone can see that. So follow your own advice and show me evidence of how wrong I am and I will gladly admit it publicly. Or don't and just play your build in peace and stop this mud throwing contest. I'm sure you have better things to do. :)

I may have missed it somewhere, but how are you dealing with mana sustain on single target?

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hsiegfried44 wrote:

I may have missed it somewhere, but how are you dealing with mana sustain on single target?

Take the mana and leech node (duelist area)