Snapshotting

I am sorry if someone else have already posted this but please consider keeping spectres persist after disconnect. On bad days I just stay in town and sort stash. Thanks!

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

I generally don't like doing this, because it is quite obvious that you are inclined not to admit that what you are proposing is indeed snapshotting, but a lot of what you are saying here is just reaching. First and foremost, the skill only raises 1 spectre on it's own, you have to augment it through the passive tree and gear for more, so saying each spec is only 20% of the skill is a ludicrous reasoning when comparing it to an attack skill.

HOW/WHY?

that's precisely the point - one needs to sacrifice a lot of passive skill points AND defense AND offense AND attribute stats AND resists due to the need to use summoning gear to augment it. how is it unfair, even remotely? the drawbacks are MASSIVE.

also, if i can have 5 spectres... one spectre IS 20%. that's not a reach - it's EXACTLY 20%. no less, no more. and i'm not the one who compared it to an attack skill.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

it is still snapshotting

no shit! have you read nothing? i was differentiating between exploitative snapshotting (respecs, removing gear, etc) with unexploitative snapshotting (actually using both weapon/shield sets... like... we're supposed to?, diversifying spectres [things that i don't think most players even realized were considered snapshotting]).

it's not OP. none of the spectres GAIN anything.

"

robmafia is really mad and refuses accept change.

i'm not mad at all. it's a video game.

you're right about the latter, though. i'll probably quit playing this, altogether. there's little point in supporting a company that cares more about reddit than their own forum/players. if i don't find it fun after the changes, i obviously won't play...

"

robmafia wrote:

scenario : spectres in a 4L with minion life, minion damage, and raise spectre...

a 4L ranged spectre with gmp isn't any more powerful than a 4L evangelist with inc dur or a 4L necromancer with aoe or a 4L bear with faster attacks. using one of each is STILL only 4 4L spectres. they don't multiply. they don't combine their skills. there's no "9L" spectre or "11L chest" in this like someone fallaciously claimed.

there are no synergies, and they're not voltron. they don't combine into megaspectre with extra supports.

if we can't use different supports, everyone's going to use one type. that's it. it's simple. and it has nothing to do with dual strike... ever.

get ready to see any remaining summoner running nothing but evangelists... or whatever the token spectre of the patch is. diversity's dead. stick a fork in it.

using your logic, dual strike has an unfair advantage because it can be supported with a gazillion different gems, unlike portal. or auras. ...or RF. so unfair!

Have to agree 100 % with your point of view here. We are only trying to optimize "1"Spectre at a time for the best they can be. I don't see it as snapshotting its optimization that's all "Diversification it what it's called" . A darn Necro Spectre gets no use from a four link GMP as a tittybitch would and a tittybitch gets no benefit from a curse.

Think a little out the box, we aren't getting any unfair advantage over others by optimizing the support gems in a link for a specific Spectre. We won't remove the Spectre's skill Gem from the item or the item used in the first place either, if we do, then all Spectres should disappear, That would be snapshotting.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

I generally don't like doing this, because it is quite obvious that you are inclined not to admit that what you are proposing is indeed snapshotting, but a lot of what you are saying here is just reaching. First and foremost, the skill only raises 1 spectre on it's own, you have to augment it through the passive tree and gear for more, so saying each spec is only 20% of the skill is a ludicrous reasoning when comparing it to an attack skill.

HOW/WHY?

that's precisely the point - one needs to sacrifice a lot of passive skill points AND defense AND offense due to the need to use summoning gear to augment it. how is it unfair, even remotely? the drawbacks are MASSIVE.

I explained both how and why (and even the reasoning for it being unfair) in the rest of my post, the stuff you did not quote. Furthermore, you never answered my question. So I will put it out there again...

Why should summoners be allowed to have one single skill that creates 2-4 different spectres with different supports that can all be "used" at the same time, but no other build has a skill with such a capability?

Is it because a summoner must make such a massive passive tree commitment? Every build has to do that to be viable.
Again, you are applying logic to the skill that you outright ignore in others. You can use the spectre gem without a ton of sacrifice. With minimal investment, you can get two spectres and three with just adding the bones of ullr as well. That literally leaves every other gear slot open for whatever stats you are looking for. If you are looking for more spectres, then guess what? You are investing in both defense and offense by getting that mod! It is a powerful one, too, as there is only one place in the entire passive tree to get such an enhancement. There are pros and cons to such a gain. The pro is the additional DPS/Shield/Whatever in the form of a spectre, the loss is a basic line of defense that would directly apply to you.

Massive drawbacks or not, allowing for a snapshot spectre is not a viable solution.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

I explained both how and why

umm... nope.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

Furthermore, you never answered my question. So I will put it out there again...

wrong. i explicitly answered by stating and even explaining the massive drawbacks incurred to run EACH additional spectre.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

Why should summoners be allowed to have one single skill that creates 2-4 different spectres with different supports that can all be "used" at the same time, but no other build has a skill with such a capability?

...this coming from the one who already mentioned how attack skills aren't comparable?

fine. waaaaaaaaaaaa, elementalists can fire bajillions of fireballs/arcs/etc that are wayyy more damaging and faster than a summoner can. waaaaaaaa! who cares that they had to invest their passives/gear for it! a summoner can't do it, so it's no fair! waaaa!

why can melee blenders attack 10 times/second when a summoner can't?! it's so unfair! who cares that they used their passives/gear for it! waaaaa!

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

Again, you are applying logic to the skill that you outright ignore in others.

you've just ventured from irony to hypocrisy.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

You can use the spectre gem without a ton of sacrifice.

as can literally every character.

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

With minimal investment, you can get two spectres and three with just adding the bones of ullr as well.

minimal? it's what - 30 skill points (or 16 with the bare minimum - at the cost of skipping all useful points nearby)!? and bones of ullr - a level 22 boot with terribad defense? ...EXACTLY MY POINT? i could use boots with 250+ ES, 30% movement speed, and tri-resists, instead! this is a MASSIVE downgrade/drawback, hardly "minimal."

"

GoatEatingToilet wrote:

Massive drawbacks or not, allowing for a snapshot spectre is not a viable solution.

so the solution for a lack of diversity and tedious play is... EVEN LESS DIVERSITY AND MORE TEDIOUS PLAY?

...that's neither a solution, nor viable. it's the ANTONYM of solution.

removed, coz i got my answer.

umm... ONE skill is ONE skill. yes, you CAN use EACH of those skills 100% of the time.

wow, that was hard.

Ah, the sweet smell of crying from the one's that can't handle the fact that snapshot is going to be fixed.

I enjoyed reading the whole thread especially the RobMafia dude. Certainly can spot a person with no flexibility and acceptance in his arsenal.

BTW, this is what he wants to do achieve.




Which is to use the benefits of both main hand and off hand weapons/shields.

Basically, Robmafia, you nor your summon should not benefit from a skill/support gem that is not "currently" socketed onto your main items. If you cannot understand or accept that fact (which I believe you can't since even the Dev responses won't suffice), then you might want to take a chill pill.

Here is something for you to ponder

...what? hahahahahahahaha. you got me. i want to hold an assload of swords?

...do you think i'm the one that whined about not being able to cycle and dual/double strike and etc, at literally the same time?

"

Ghazzy wrote:

If the changes makes summoner still viable for the Vaal Metagame i will upgrade my support pack.
It will mean that GGG actually cares for their players.

guess someone from GGG is thinking "challenge acceptet"! :P