"Meaningful Combat" Is Anti-ARPG

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

so 5 years out of the game, you played it, didnt gave a shit about the game, then when it started gaining traction you came back, really shows what kind of players you are, the fotm chaser.

Yes and you know exact reason why i stopped playing, right?

Shows what kind of human you are...

You do know where wind meet is a Single ARPG which have a constant online and a co-op/ multiplayers option.

Having a always online doesnt mean it is multi-player. There is no debate here, this is just technical requirement, having online requirement is to prevent hacking.

The only things that would make this game a co-op, or a multiplayers, is when the majority of the activities where co-playing or multiplaying are mandatory.

One day Jonathan played Dark Souls and Elden Ring and it doomed the fate of POE2 and POE1 from then on. I agree fully with what OP said. I DONT WANT TO DO THE SAME COMBO FOR THE SAME MAP FOR 100 HOURS END period.

Obviously we wanted different elements added to Poe2, nobody wanted it to be same as Poe1, but whateve they have done to this game is completely opposite what people loved about Poe1; build diversity, freedom of choice, power fantasy.

Threads like this are the exact reason i turn off global chat in SSF LOL

Simply to add my 2 cents for feedback purposes, I'd consider myself one of those who prefer a slower playstyle for PoE 2 with engaging encounters and am happy they are trying to balance things in that direction.

Now with that said, the Venn diagram between PoE 1 and PoE 2 players and intended audiences has a fair amount of overlap, but a large section on either side will likely not enjoy the other as much, or at all. Personally I am fortunate enough that I enjoy both, but particularly PoE 2.

Some arguments made here have no valid basis, claiming things to be true does not make them so, especially when claiming to speak for large sections of the playerbase. We speak for ourselves and ourselves alone, if others share an opinion or disagree with one they can post themselves and GGG can tally things from there. The one thing we do have in common is that anyone taking the time to comment here clearly cares about the game and it's future, and it's awesome that this is such an active forum.

No Rest for the Wicked seems like an obvious direct comparison. Overall review rating on Steam is very positive, but barely. Feedback indicates the game is enjoyable for X hours. Seems to indicate that the constant need to focus and not make mistakes causes player fatigue.

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FruitLord#0833 wrote:

No Rest for the Wicked seems like an obvious direct comparison. Overall review rating on Steam is very positive, but barely. Feedback indicates the game is enjoyable for X hours. Seems to indicate that the constant need to focus and not make mistakes causes player fatigue.

As someone who has played be it PoE 1/2 AND NRFTW since day one of their release i can tell you they are not the same type of game, "meaningful" combat makes sense in NRFTW as it's literally an isometric Dark Souls, youre mostly facing 1-3 enemies at a time and despite the gear being kinda random in stats it's very rigid on the power level of those so the balance of the game is easy as they dont have a massive spectrum on the power of characters, PoE 2 is not an isometric Dark Souls and will never be, it's a classic ARPG where you fight dozens of monsters at the same time, a build can deal 1 million dps while another one can deal 100 millions, it's a way more complex and mathematically impossible to perfectly balance (i dare to say it's even impossible to be decently balanced), im ok with slowing down the pace of the game abit (and when i mean slowing down the pace i mean the combat, not the dead time spent running around etc as it's horrible) as PoE 1 was slower than it is right now when it released, but if they slow the game too much and/or dont start cutting the dead time you spend running around and doing nothing the game will not hold people around.

Those OP arguments were already debated in other threads.


Grind = 1 button skill

- We all know that aint true, grind can be in any game. Roguelikes like Hades, FPS like arc raiders, mmorpg like wow.


Its is impossible to farm with meaningful combat, everybody will get tired

Tell that to league of legends and dota players, or any mmorpg in the market, or even helldivers. It has no sense at all. PPl sink hundreds of hours in these games

Zoom is here since diablo 2 and thats what defines ARPG

To begin with, even the witcher 3 is ARPG, but lets ignore that and consider that we are talking about ''diablo like'' games type of ARPG. Well, look at poe1, its waaaay different from diablo. It has an atlas, it has leagues, it uses orbs instead of gold for trading, etc. Imagine if a player back in the day said ''fuck leagues, or atlas, this is not ''ARPG'', we dont need anything better than diablo 2''.

We cant take 1 thing from a genre, because we like it, and say that this is genre defining, it isnt. Games evolves and nobody owns the definition of what a good game is.

Poe ninja has only deadeye builds, that proves ppl love to zoom

Oh boy, again this same thing. Ppl want loot, and feel that they are winning. Its a game. Nobody wants to lose. And we know the economy is brutal. If you get too behind, you are dead in the league because of inflation. Last patches builds like deadeye with 150 movespeed and huge aoe could farm 5x better than others. Balance is still bad. So ppl played it. If playing with snails could give 5x more currency than zooming, 50% of the builds would be snails ( dont worry, we are not asking that )


Final obs

Its so simple. The player community of poe2 aint the same as poe1. WE ALL are the playerbase of this game. And a lot of ppl want new stuff. Zoomers should have their farm strats, but they cant have all the farm strats, thats just nonsense.

And im pretty sure most of the players, even zoomers, dont want that flashy 1 button madness from poe1. Even zoom can be done in a more meaningful and smart way. Poe1 is so chaotic rn that i guess you dont even need ta have the combat animations. Just make us plan our build, our atlas and when we enter maps an algoritm calculates how much of it we completed and generates the loot dropping around us making all those tinky sounds (thats really important). Because mapping is just like that rn, its a slot machine, whats behind doesnt matter.

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zepberonha#9748 wrote:

Those OP arguments were already debated in other threads.


Grind = 1 button skill

- We all know that aint true, grind can be in any game. Roguelikes like Hades, FPS like arc raiders, mmorpg like wow.

Hades gets bored after like 5 full runs, arc raiders bores me out with it shallow gameplay, mmorpg like wow died like a decade ago. You people keep mentioning games that have died due to unpopularity to Path of Exile, a game which have carved out it's own niche and still growing, alive and bustling to this day.

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Its is impossible to farm with meaningful combat, everybody will get tired

Tell that to league of legends and dota players, or any mmorpg in the market, or even helldivers. It has no sense at all. PPl sink hundreds of hours in these games

league of legends and dota plays for MMR, same like we PoE players play for loot. LoL is quite high APM and zoom-zoom compared to dota, dota is a old man game. Trust me I'm high rank in both (Diamond LoL in 2012) and played since Dota1.

Also please never compared LoL / DotA to PoE2 comboing shit. MOBA games are high skill ceiling games that is up to dozens of combination and timing of spells to OUTPLAY an actual human.

My brother you are linearly comboing Q-W-E on a white skeleton?

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Zoom is here since diablo 2 and thats what defines ARPG

To begin with, even the witcher 3 is ARPG, but lets ignore that and consider that we are talking about ''diablo like'' games type of ARPG. Well, look at poe1, its waaaay different from diablo. It has an atlas, it has leagues, it uses orbs instead of gold for trading, etc. Imagine if a player back in the day said ''fuck leagues, or atlas, this is not ''ARPG'', we dont need anything better than diablo 2''.

You've got no point here.

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We cant take 1 thing from a genre, because we like it, and say that this is genre defining, it isnt. Games evolves and nobody owns the definition of what a good game is.

Grinding is literally genre defining for ARPG what are you on about? I've had more hours on Path of Exile than any next 3 favourite games combined. It's grind, it's time consuming. Literally go check on my profile / character for 3.26 character, it's got almost 4 mirrors worth of gears on it. I GRINDED for over 2 months on that character to minmax it. Path of Exile and among some other MMORPGs are the grindiest game that I've played and spent time into.

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Poe ninja has only deadeye builds, that proves ppl love to zoom

Oh boy, again this same thing. Ppl want loot, and feel that they are winning. Its a game. Nobody wants to lose. And we know the economy is brutal. If you get too behind, you are dead in the league because of inflation. Last patches builds like deadeye with 150 movespeed and huge aoe could farm 5x better than others. Balance is still bad. So ppl played it. If playing with snails could give 5x more currency than zooming, 50% of the builds would be snails ( dont worry, we are not asking that )

So exactly my point in the main post? People are attracted to strong, comfortable and pleasant build to grind. Because it's both efficient and comfortable to play?

The fact that you non-ARPG people keep crying about "meaningful combat" and people still attracted to 1-button zoomy builds keeps flying over your head or something?

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Final obs

Its so simple. The player community of poe2 aint the same as poe1. WE ALL are the playerbase of this game. And a lot of ppl want new stuff. Zoomers should have their farm strats, but they cant have all the farm strats, thats just nonsense.

PoE1 already have this in some form. As much as people cry about 1-button zoom-zoom there are contents that requires dedicated builds.

I dare you to zoom and build a full glass canon to play in Uber Uber Labs, Ultimatum 10 waves or Simulacrum, giga juiced Bligh, and to some extend T17 full mods?

PoE1 is healthier than ever balancing tanky-slow builds and 1-button zoom zoom as both can have their niches. For the past few patches the meta actually shifted into giga-defensive characters to farm above mentioned contents effectively. While PoE2 is still kicking and screaming about generator/spender and comboing spells what not.

just go play poe 1, leave poe 2 alone.