"Meaningful Combat" Is Anti-ARPG

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

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The same can be said to you. Go play Dark Souls and leave poe 2 alone. :)

It cannot. I'm a new player for GGG. I don't play poe 1. Poe 2 was made to attract new people in the 1st place. And for old players they still keep supporting Poe 1. And this is where they all should stay.

First of all, PoE 2 wasnt even supposed to be what it is now, it was changed during production, it was supposed to be an alternative campaign for PoE 1, was not even supposed to have a 2 in it's name.

Second of all changes were made to attract new players WHILE KEEPING THE OLD ONES (you know, the ones that were part on making GGG what it is today).

And finally, PoE 1 is not getting the support it diserves, so it's getting slowly sidelined.

[Removed by Support] i've supported PoE even in it's darkest times and shitty graphics.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

league of legends and dota plays for MMR, same like we PoE players play for loot. LoL is quite high APM and zoom-zoom compared to dota, dota is a old man game. Trust me I'm high rank in both (Diamond LoL in 2012) and played since Dota1.

Thats the main issue. It doesnt matter if arc raiders and wow bores you. It matters there are still a shit ton of ppl playing and grinding them. Thats the main point. What you think a game should be is your opinion, not a definition of the genre. You define what grind is, what arpg is. Man, do you really believe you own all those definitions?

Anyway

You just said that league of legends is zoom zoom instead of meaningful gameplay. You just proved that there wont be any real discussion with you, after such an insane comment lol. For the first time i could not even finish reading the response. I just lost any interest in your posts from now on. I like to discuss rational things, this cleary aint one. Im out

Jonathan said in interview with Talkativ Tri that it will be possible to spec in to Atlas tree if you prefere faster gameplay and blasting the screen. So theres is no this or that in POE 2 soon. Time to find something else to argue about mabey?

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Theres a problem with the slow and methodical combat in ARPG game.

ARPG game, since Diablo 2, have established it's identity on a few pillars, and grind is one of them.

But D2 had meaningful and slower gameplay? And imo D2 gameplay speed and overall speed is perfect among all ARPGs i played.
Im not talking about these endgame assassin and enigma, i think these things are just broken and teleport should have a 5 second CD, blizzard just abandoned their game long ago so its still in the game.

And PoE2 come close to this perfect combat, but with all PoE freedom/diversity and awesome mechanics. At least in first few acts. Looking forward to 0.4 changes to monster density.

But the core thing in Diablo 2 is the fact you can see the mobs you're fighting, and monsters are different and interesting to fight. They are not a mindless pinata crowd to explode at the rate of 100/sec for gamble for loot.

PoE1 is just unplayable for many people due to this overspeed combat where you're only looking at the map and lootfilter playing a casino game, not an RPG.

This topic stopped being a feedback long ago.
You just throwing shit at each other at this point and pulling out some bullshit stories about what GGG planned for the game to be, from decades ago. Nothing of it have any value as feedback to the game at this point.
Plans evolve.
You should adapt, or you become old grumpy guy who "always knows better", but is visibly miserable at the same time...

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Because that's not what make ARPG shines. Zoom Zoom was born from the need to comfortably and pleasantly hours on end farming. It's quite literally derived from one of the core pillar that defines modern ARPG.

Zoom zoom and mindlessly grinding hoards of mobs that get 1 shot isn't "Modern ARPGs" It's something that has been going on for 25+ years. I'd argue that slaying screens packed with monsters that are irrelevant as something that is an antiquated idea left over from old ARPGs.

I also wouldn't say that having super dense monster packs explode is actually "Action" either.

I would say though having immersive and meaningful combat can be called "Action"

So the next generation ARPG of the future likely will step away from this old idea of zoom zoom huge packs of screens exploding monsters. It will actually have immersive and meaningful combat against monsters with mechanics and abilities you need to "counter".

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AbombThePeoplesChamp#1184 wrote:

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Because that's not what make ARPG shines. Zoom Zoom was born from the need to comfortably and pleasantly hours on end farming. It's quite literally derived from one of the core pillar that defines modern ARPG.

Zoom zoom and mindlessly grinding hoards of mobs that get 1 shot isn't "Modern ARPGs" It's something that has been going on for 25+ years. I'd argue that slaying screens packed with monsters that are irrelevant as something that is an antiquated idea left over from old ARPGs.

I also wouldn't say that having super dense monster packs explode is actually "Action" either.

I would say though having immersive and meaningful combat can be called "Action"

So the next generation ARPG of the future likely will step away from this old idea of zoom zoom huge packs of screens exploding monsters. It will actually have immersive and meaningful combat against monsters with mechanics and abilities you need to "counter".

Then it would stop being the category of game it is and turn into a completely different type of game, what you are talking about is Dark Souls, Nioh, Elden Ring, Lords of the Fallen etc, that's what you want here just with an isometric view, wich doesnt make sense as it's a completely different genre of game, it amazes me how you guys can be so dense seriously, those games have clearly gated power levels wich makes them easier to balance and keep the combat "meaningful", that will never happen here, it's literally mathematically impossible, you will always have builds that deal 1 million damage and have to engage into that fabled meaningful combat and builds that deal 100 millions and completely ignore any mechanics.

You want this game to be a game it cant be and will never be, and what's even worse is that you keep crying for meaningful combat but as soon as the new league drops you're the first to search for the FOTM build that clears fast and deal 20+ millions damage to invalidate any mechanics the game throws at you, i dont even know what to say anymore.

If you really want to play an isometric arpg with Dark Souls mechanics go play No Rest for the Wicked and leave PoE 2 alone seriously.

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

it's literally mathematically impossible, you will always have builds that deal 1 million damage and have to engage into that fabled meaningful combat and builds that deal 100 millions and completely ignore any mechanics.

You want this game to be a game it cant be and will never be, and what's even worse is that you keep crying for meaningful combat but as soon as the new league drops you're the first to search for the FOTM build that clears fast and deal 20+ millions damage to invalidate any mechanics the game throws at you, i dont even know what to say anymore.

If you really want to play an isometric arpg with Dark Souls mechanics go play No Rest for the Wicked and leave PoE 2 alone seriously.

Finally someone gets it.

These people are so dense and lack of experience in Path of Exile and video games in general. They WANT things without truely understand what it takes to achieve what they WANT. Like babies, they just WANT things to be their way, no matter the consequences and trade-off, they do not even acknowledge the consequences and trade-off.

They cry about the lack of "meaningful combat", and when they got it, they cry about how diluteed and meangingless are passive trees and builds and uniques in Path of Exile 2, not knowing it's EXACTLY what they wished for and the trade-off of "meaningful combat"

See my other post (Mechanical Skill (Dodgeroll) and Intellectual Skill (Build Theorycrafting) exists on a spectrum.): https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3883605

I love how all the responses to long term path of exile players wanting some smooth progression and fast action in their Actiin RPG, eventually whittle down to: well it is EA so it will get better. The copium is very strong. It will get better when the devs realize the slow methodical "If you have 4 pencils and I have 7 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple, because aliens don't wear hats" will not work.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

I love how all the responses to long term path of exile players wanting some smooth progression and fast action in their Actiin RPG, eventually whittle down to: well it is EA so it will get better. The copium is very strong. It will get better when the devs realize the slow methodical "If you have 4 pencils and I have 7 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple, because aliens don't wear hats" will not work.

I'm mostly just posting for fun. PoE2 will eventually become zoom-zoom like PoE1. Ít's just the course of nature, look at how Dead Eye LA 1 button zoom-zoom instantly become fan favourite most played build in 0.3. Sure, GGG could push back a patch or a few patches of slowing down things, but it will gradually change.

It's almost like, people are naturally attracted to what is fun and makes sense.

PoE2 tourists, once get used to the game, will follow the exact same path as Path of Exile veterans once walked. Then they will naturally choose, design and play smooth, comfortable builds. All the senseless generator/spender or comboing builds will eventually be weeded out of existance.