The simultaneous development of POE1 and POE2 isnt working

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

^That was never stated, isn't true, nor would it make any semblance of sense for a company or developer to do that.

You pulled that completely out of thin air.

Hence, all I could say in response was "what".



What they STATED was that they are shifting their mentality to be more conscious of release dates. They set the dates, and have to meet them with whatever content is ready.

4 month cycle for each game, 2 months apart. That does NOT translate to "work on 1 game for two months, then work on the other".....that's a hilariously dumb company policy and not at all how design works.

They work on a league and content of ONE game for the ENTIRETY of the time they have, to the point where they don't even finish everything they want to get done prior to its release. And you think they are going to restrict themselves two additional months on top of that?!

Any extra time they might find themselves with on their development team gets re-portioned to the NEXT league mechanic, the NEXT project, not the other game.



There was exactly ONE instance where GGG came out and said they pulled PoE 1 staff away from PoE 1 to work on PoE 2 because they needed all hands on deck because it was a clusterf for the first 3 months that they were not prepared for. Jonathan gave a whole speech on this. But then they BECAME prepared and re-separated the teams. They hired a ton more staff so they WOULDN'T need to do that again in the future.

Yall are not going to defeat cowmoo on this topic they are just layin down too many facts.

Some of which i've tried to communicate in earlier posts.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

^That was never stated, isn't true, nor would it make any semblance of sense for a company or developer to do that.

You pulled that completely out of thin air.

Hence, all I could say in response was "what".

It's obvious that they have to focus on each game for 2 months. Do you think Mark and Jonathan can split into two? Do you even realize how big those leagues are for the size of GGG's staff? Companies much bigger can't deliver 1/10 of what they have been doing and plan to do every 2 months lol

Focusing on a game doesn't mean abandoning the other. There's of course people still working on poe2 while they work on poe1, it's not like they need the whole staff, but the problem is how many of those people can actually make anything relevant for either game

Even if they hired new people, which they probably did, you still have the problem that was mentioned in an interview by one of those two: they have one single guy who has free pass to do any balance changes, while the rest can't really do much on it because of how complicated the whole thing ends up being. That guy has to work on poe1

This is just one instance of what can happen. It hasn't been a week when we had the interview talking about the amount of bugs accumulated, which on poe2's side is astronomical and they can't shift the team to work on them while they're working on poe1

I do believe they can pull through and keep the same quality, but it's insane to think the quality would be the same had they focused on a single game instead of two

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iHiems#0168 wrote:

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

^That was never stated, isn't true, nor would it make any semblance of sense for a company or developer to do that.

You pulled that completely out of thin air.

Hence, all I could say in response was "what".

It's obvious that they have to focus on each game for 2 months. Do you think Mark and Jonathan can split into two? Do you even realize how big those leagues are for the size of GGG's staff? Companies much bigger can't deliver 1/10 of what they have been doing and plan to do every 2 months lol

Focusing on a game doesn't mean abandoning the other. There's of course people still working on poe2 while they work on poe1, it's not like they need the whole staff, but the problem is how many of those people can actually make anything relevant for either game

Even if they hired new people, which they probably did, you still have the problem that was mentioned in an interview by one of those two: they have one single guy who has free pass to do any balance changes, while the rest can't really do much on it because of how complicated the whole thing ends up being. That guy has to work on poe1

This is just one instance of what can happen. It hasn't been a week when we had the interview talking about the amount of bugs accumulated, which on poe2's side is astronomical and they can't shift the team to work on them while they're working on poe1

I do believe they can pull through and keep the same quality, but it's insane to think the quality would be the same had they focused on a single game instead of two

lol do you think that Mark and Jonathan are sitting down banging out lines of code all day?
Tim Apple isnt in chengdu assembling iphones.

they are executives that hire and direct teams of people.
it isnt a stretch AT ALL to think they can be handling two projects at once.

time to take your meds.

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SilentSymphony#3358 wrote:

Yall are not going to defeat cowmoo on this topic they are just layin down too many facts.

Some of which i've tried to communicate in earlier posts.

It is quite honestly astounding some of the things people convince themselves of as reality.....despite all evidence and direct communication saying almost the exact opposite. And the severe lack of common sense.

Like....90% of this isn't even my own speculations: its direct information from the developers themselves.



Look even in the last post:
" It hasn't been a week when we had the interview talking about the amount of bugs accumulated, which on poe2's side is astronomical and they can't shift the team to work on them while they're working on poe1"

First of all, 90% of this statement is completely made up. Just no basis in fact. Second of all, it illustrates exactly WHY the comment that "They work on one game for 2months, then the other for 2 months".....makes no sense.



And yes: if the company ONLY had one product then OBVIOUSLY it'd be easier. They TOLD US it was harder to run two games. That's an irrelevant comment to anything you have stated lol.

And of course there is at least SOME overlap between the two teams: there are systems and code that doesn't need a totally separate approach, so why split it up? But the CORE aspects of development? Two entirely separate teams working on their OWN 4-month cycle.

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JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 wrote:

lol do you think that Mark and Jonathan are sitting down banging out lines of code all day?
Tim Apple isnt in chengdu assembling iphones.

they are executives that hire and direct teams of people.
it isnt a stretch AT ALL to think they can be handling two projects at once.

time to take your meds.

Who said anything about banging out lines of code all day? You guys are in the fantasy land thinking there are two giant teams working on each game when it's clearly not the case

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iHiems#0168 wrote:

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JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 wrote:

lol do you think that Mark and Jonathan are sitting down banging out lines of code all day?
Tim Apple isnt in chengdu assembling iphones.

they are executives that hire and direct teams of people.
it isnt a stretch AT ALL to think they can be handling two projects at once.

time to take your meds.

Who said anything about banging out lines of code all day? You guys are in the fantasy land thinking there are two giant teams working on each game when it's clearly not the case

Well i give up trying to convince you and the others, Take this i feel you may need it.

No, don't go. We need more caplocks and continual reference to a self-contradicting source that would never be wrong, especially not when giving a press interview!

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

No, don't go. We need more caplocks and continual reference to a self-contradicting source that would never be wrong, especially not when giving a press interview!

Oh okay.....so instead of believing the people that literally run the company they are talking about.....you instead trust the random person on the forum that is illustrating shockingly bad and inefficient company and developmental design?

You think they are wrong about the structure of their own company lol?

Okay then.

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Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

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IILU81II#8410 wrote:

Most players are cycling between the two and thats exactly what they wanted.

You have to understand how utterly absurd that is from an economic standpoint. You just have to. Why would they want this?

Those people only have one wallet dude. How does GGG benefit from cycling them between two games? Juggling the same players back and forth between two games costs GGG an enormous amount of additional money with absolutely zero additional revenue potential. The day they pitched that business model is the day Tencent would liquidate them and try to recoup as much of their investment as possible by selling off the office furniture...

You might not like it but some people might, it's keeping more people logged in within POE in general. When POE2's league is about near the end, instead of logging off and they don't have to wait long, they can switch over to POE1 and vice versa if they want to continue playing. The league release cycle seems like it's intended to do that (rather than overlap with each other).

If they are able to support it, keep majority of the players happy (and their employee's burnout), why not? From what I see a lot of people have been happy with the Abyssal League

I for one started on POE2, wanted more and it's why I ended up on the Settlers, then Phraecia. Now I'm going to do the same since I've almost completed the goals and things I wanted to try around in POE2. I'm also bringing in my friends over to Keepers of the Flame, who became fanatics of this game from their first time POE2 and wanted more.

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Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

You have to understand how utterly absurd that is from an economic standpoint. You just have to. Why would they want this?

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Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

You just have to.

I hate this kind of statements in modern discussions, like something automatically it is wrong, I'm right, that seems as if there's no room for discussion.

In my opinion, the game is still in Early Access, I would rather GGG try and experiment new things now with us. They've made mistakes but we've seen that they are listening and willing to change just the same, just based on the mid league patches they dropped on 0.2 then ultimately the difference in experience from 0.2 to 0.3.

So I wouldn't call it immediately that it's not working or so and so is dead.

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Alzucard#2422 wrote:

To clarify something. I dont say stop development of POE1. I dont have an opinion in that regard. Im just saying this isnt working.

A game in early access needs a lot more care than an already released game. More bugfixes, more patches.

I agree. This is the first instance i've seen of a game in EA where players are basically being asked to be OK with the fact that for several months per year, development on it is completely halted.

If this were like any other EA release, issues like for example, the crippled ritual tablet drop rate, locking players out of obtaining required crafting materials, would never remain untreated for so long.

Also, I've been playing Path of Exile ever since the start of POE1's closed beta many years ago and i remember being very impressed over the years with the incredible quality of coding and infrastructure they offered (once they finally got rid of desync). Sadly, ever since POE2's EA launched, that quality level has been steadily going downhill. Each patch brings a boatload of new bugs, some of which are fixed fairly soon, but others are left to pile up. And the pile IS getting bigger over time.

I can't speak as to the quality of the more recent POE1 releases but i wouldn't be surprised if this overly busy schedule is also having a negative impact there. In any case, it IS having an undeniable, negative effect on the development of POE 2, because I KNOW these guys can do a lot better if they only had the time