Armour Stacker, ES Stacker etc. need to be removed from the Game - Change my Mind

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

I didn't miss any point you made.....you are just making a very poor argument and ignoring the costs associated because it doesn't fit the narrative.

You mean like all those other times you told me the same thing, which was proven incorrect after the fact and you refused to rectify at all, even though I gave you the opportunity to?

I'm not ignoring cost at all. Cost isn't much of a factor when you are snowballing with a build where every Divine invested has great returns on multiplie fronts.

If you need another example, take Purity of Fire damage taken stacking. When I was playing this and before it was nerfed, the Sublime Vision was a couple Divines. Soon after, some random streamer got their hands on it and suddenly the thing started at 50 Div. And every league thereafter, it has been basically only restricted to those with the currency. And those who have it are left unaffected. They can have the power, they can wield it, and they profit.

Rarity and cost means fuck all if you get your hands on one. Every investment from that point on not only drives the power of your build, but also the content you can do. You can say that for every other build, but I am not sure how many more times I should have to reiterate on snowballing and how offense is scaled via defense. If you can't see how broken that is, nothing I can say will change your mind. Not that it would anyway, but you get the point.

The game has an economy and is, bottom line, a competitive game. Reigning in outliers should be par for the course. Builds that scale offense via defense should not exist. You get everything in one single package. Same old shit as with Herald stackers back then, just different coat of paint.

Imagine caring this much about how others play the game.

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Biovital#3172 wrote:

Imagine caring this much about how others play the game.

This is a discussion forum ;P
A discussion whether or not ES stacking should get nerfed seems pretty reasonable.
Also, poe has a pretty substantial number of viewers on twitch and events that attract many viewers shouldn't end up in everybody and their sister playing trickster ;) Maybe they won't this time around, but anyway, just sayin...

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Biovital#3172 wrote:

Imagine caring this much about how others play the game.

People are saying the same thing about billionaires. Why should I care about them if they got nothing to do with me? Completely ignoring the fact that they are a blight on society. This isn't much different, just in a different context.

For example, if I were to link 50 Div here, you can be sure as ice is cold that there will be someone posting their 1000+ Divs or Mirrors/Mageblood/whatever the fuck, completely missing the point that amassed wealth is useless if you are not using it. They just take it out of the economy and restrict access for those with less.

That's an arbitrary example that, in my opinion, isn't too far from home at all.

And it directly coincides with how much top end power exists and how much is allowed to exist. Things go rampant otherwise. Stacker builds are the equivalent to that. I don't fault anyone playing this getting upset, I can't even play my own favorite build anymore, but it's also simply a reflection on how things are.

Let's not forget that party play exists and that people who abuse and monopolize the in-game market are a big part of the problem. And guess what they tend to use.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

For example, if I were to link 50 Div here, you can be sure as ice is cold that there will be someone posting their 1000+ Divs or Mirrors/Mageblood/whatever the fuck, completely missing the point that amassed wealth is useless if you are not using it. They just take it out of the economy and restrict access for those with less.

And how do wealthy people actually prevent you from getting wealthy yourself?
Theres no limit of how much currency can exist in a league, so people who have more than you take literally nothing from you nor do they really restrict your access as you could generate a indefinite amount yourself at any giving time.

Just like stackers being a "problem", kinda sounds like a fomo issue now that you mentioned wealth.

Spent hundreds of divs on my armour stacker already and it still feels like shit. I don’t think I’m on the same boat with the EE trickster guys.

es stackers fine LOL yeah lets buff life by 5 times then u put es stack on any classs and its still 100x better than any life build

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

Just like stackers being a "problem", kinda sounds like a fomo issue now that you mentioned wealth.

There is no "FOMO" going on here. I simply refuse to abuse easy cheese mechanics. It's why I won't use Doryani's on a Merc, either. One, it's gonna get nerfed, guaranteed, and two, stuff like that diminishes any joy of accomplishment because it feels like cheating. Abundance of wealth is just one of the symptoms of dominating builds.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Controversial topic, I know, but please indulge me for a moment. I will keep it brief:

Defensive stats turned into offensive stats are not healthy for the game.

How many more leagues of the same BS every time?

STR stackers stacking flat life and damage. ES Tricksters stacking ES for massive eHP and damage. Armour stackers and Mana stackers doing same thing under a different coat of paint, etc.

It completely warps the game for them, essentially putting them out of reach of everyone else. You simply cannot compete with that, at all.

We used to have Physical Damage Reduction (PDR) on the tree and on more items, and they were all removed because it was deemed too powerful. Now, look at where we are. Meta running completely rampant with stackers everywhere.

This is 3.10 Deli Herald stackers all over again, though perhaps a little less extreme.

On a sidenote: I'm calling it now. Next thing to be nuked next patch will be Cast When Stunned.

What do you mean with compete? Good players who also have a lot of time will always be out of your or my range with every single build. Just how it is. Doesn´t matter what they are doing. So it´s kinda pointless to get rid of ES or armor stackers.

The issue is the game balance at the moment. ES has so many benefits over life its not even funny. My beserker just dies instantly vs sirus storm while my trickster can tank it thats why people prefer playing the stronger version of defence.

Just nerfing the good things won´t cut it in poe anymore. In the end we will have same shit as archnemesis got introduced after the league into the game. Monsters which are unkillable and 1 shot us while we lack in power. This is where we will end again with nerfing everything more and more.

Though I´m not saying ES and Armor stackers are in a good spot with powerlevel but the best way you can build right now is some sort of a stacker.

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

What do you mean with compete? Good players who also have a lot of time will always be out of your or my range with every single build.

Time is money in PoE, I know that. I earn more currency when I play more, too. It's natural and logical.

You then followed it up with, literally, the point:

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

Though I´m not saying ES and Armor stackers are in a good spot with powerlevel but the best way you can build right now is some sort of a stacker.

Ugh, finally. I was itching under my finger nails to type this out, as I've tried to say it a couple times without saying it directly. Finally someone gets it. That is directly where and why snowballing is happening.

If they refuse to remove them, they should add caps, as was suggested earlier. They did the same with Queen of the Forest, after that was the dominating meta (see here, though I don't think PoM was the OG), and they need to do it more. And then they can go about leveling out the curve of those items.

Edit: Yeah, PoM was just a copycat. Here's the one I think I saw first many years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsNp762YVqM

The name does ring a bell.