The Vision is TRASH.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Someone that has cult-like mentality, won't ever admit it even if they realize it obviously, that would invalidate their whole position. I won't comment on the rest above this part individually because the guy that posted literally after I made that comment proved my point instantly, which was comedy gold if you ask me. It's as if I told him to make that post lmao.

That humans tend not to admit when they were wrong about something they had a strong opinion about, is literally how the human brain works, period.
You could read some scientific papers about it and stop trying to frame ppl here as a mindless cult because they disagree with you.

"

Everything has been proven. The video example was to prove streamers/influencers have power of influence, which it shows, it influenced everyone to do what they did. The second example with Elon Musk is literally completely tied to influencing opinions people have.

That's not how "proof" works. Every example you gave so far is easily empirically falsifiable.
Would something similar happen if Walmart tells ppl that "tomorrow at this location we gift 100 PS5 away"? Yes.

"

In fact, I recall another example I saw these past days.. it was a post with a title that went something like this "fubgun quits, therefore I quit too". I rest my case. And there were more like that that I've seen before as well.

Picking individual examples does not support your general claim about the cult-like mind.
Imagine I would claim "the earth is flat" because I can find individuals who support this claim, and now think I can rest my case. That's not "closing a case" or "proof" works.

"

In fact, I'm sure we even agree on some of the core issues PoE2 has... for example ... crafting. I think crafting in PoE2 is extremely lackluster to say the least and I'm sure you think so too. But you know where our paths diverge?

Immediately after that you and other cult people will say that "PoE1's crafting is the best and they should've done the same in PoE2" - subjective cult-like behavior statement that ignores all the issues with PoE1's crafting.

So far, you based every single accusation of "cult-like behaviour" on a manner of speaking, you deem not to be the right way. But the quality of statements just differs depending on "how emotional" (exaggeration, for example) and/or "how well someone is versed with words".
Or, simply speaking, you say someone is "cult-minded" because they articulate their views in a way you say is cult-like, without being able to support this claim.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

So far, you based every single accusation of "cult-like behaviour" on a manner of speaking, you deem not to be the right way. But the quality of statements just differs depending on "how emotional" (exaggeration, for example) and/or "how well someone is versed with words".
Or, simply speaking, you say someone is "cult-minded" because they articulate their views in a way you say is cult-like, without being able to support this claim.

Overly emotional responses are also a part of this, that is true. That fact also betrays irrational thinking and judgement towards the game's issues, and of course, the cult-like mentality towards PoE1. People can have overly emotional reactions towards different things that inconvenience them as well without being "part of the cult" but, again, I've seen most of those emotional responses coming clearly from the PoE1 crowd.

Presented plenty of proof, you just choose to ignore it, do mental gymnastics around it and such. Nothing I can do about that, it's your choice.

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

Lastly, if you answer truthfully, which I honestly don't believe you will... how much of the PoE1 community do you feel is like that?

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Presented plenty of proof, you just choose to ignore it, do mental gymnastics around it and such. Nothing I can do about that, it's your choice.

Nothing so far was anything near "proof". Already demonstrated to you that your "connections" are easily empirically falsifiable.

"

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

Shifting the goalpost won't help you here.
Reconstructing it to "A PART", which could mean anything - from 5 ppl to 90% of the PoE1 community, is dishonest for your argumentation.

You can't imply in the entire discussion that sooo many ppl in the PoE1 community have a "cult-like mentality", but they roll it back to "you know, just... a part!?".

This generalisation does not imply you think of or talk about a "part", considering everything else you stated so far:
"Most of the cult-like PoE1 people had their mind already decided that PoE2 is not for them."
So, how many from the PoE1 community are in this "cult"?
A meaningless part? A small part? A big part? A massive part? The majority?

"

Lastly, if you answer truthfully, which I honestly don't believe you will... how much of the PoE1 community do you feel is like that?

There is no truthful answer to it, unless you count "I can't know". As long as there is no hard evidence that withstands falsification - it's an opinionated assumption, thus meaningless.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Presented plenty of proof, you just choose to ignore it, do mental gymnastics around it and such. Nothing I can do about that, it's your choice.

Nothing so far was anything near "proof". Already demonstrated to you that your "connections" are easily empirically falsifiable.

"

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

Shifting the goalpost won't help you here.
Reconstructing it to "A PART", which could mean anything - from 5 ppl to 90% of the PoE1 community, is dishonest for your argumentation.

You can't imply in the entire discussion that sooo many ppl in the PoE1 community have a "cult-like mentality", but they roll it back to "you know, just... a part!?".

This generalisation does not imply you think of or talk about a "part", considering everything else you stated so far:
"Most of the cult-like PoE1 people had their mind already decided that PoE2 is not for them."
So, how many from the PoE1 community are in this "cult"?
A meaningless part? A small part? A big part? A massive part? The majority?

"

Lastly, if you answer truthfully, which I honestly don't believe you will... how much of the PoE1 community do you feel is like that?

There is no truthful answer to it, unless you count "I can't know". As long as there is no hard evidence that withstands falsification - it's an opinionated assumption, thus meaningless.

Answer the question. Why do you dodge it?

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Answer the question. Why do you dodge it?

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

I didn't answer this question because it's nonsensical for the discussion about the claims you made. But, if you feel better...

Yes. It's possible that a part of the PoE1 community is obsessed with the game yadda yadda bla.
Now, to why it's nonsensical.
Obsessed and irrational ppl are everywhere, period. But your initial claim was not "some irrational ppl yadda yadda".
You tried to paint the picture with "PoE1 community is cult-like" and "It's the streamers' fault".

Furthermore, the problem with "part" still stands in your question, that's why I asked YOU, what you avoided answering:
"So, how many from the PoE1 community are in this "cult"?
A meaningless part? A small part? A big part? A massive part? The majority?"

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Answer the question. Why do you dodge it?

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

I didn't answer this question because it's nonsensical for the discussion about the claims you made. But, if you feel better...

Yes. It's possible that a part of the PoE1 community is obsessed with the game yadda yadda bla.
Now, to why it's nonsensical.
Obsessed and irrational ppl are everywhere, period. But your initial claim was not "some irrational ppl yadda yadda".
You tried to paint the picture with "PoE1 community is cult-like" and "It's the streamers' fault".

Furthermore, the problem with "part" still stands in your question, that's why I asked YOU, what you avoided answering:
"So, how many from the PoE1 community are in this "cult"?
A meaningless part? A small part? A big part? A massive part? The majority?"

At least I managed to get that out of you, as snarky and backhanded as it was. Also nothing changed, irrationality is part of cult-like mentality and popular streamers definitely were at fault as well.

I didn't answer that part so I can hear your answer first. I think a big part have that cult-like mentality. And you need to look no further then these forums, reddit, and popular streamer's channels to see it on full display.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Answer the question. Why do you dodge it?

Do you really believe that a part of the PoE1 community isn't obsessed with PoE1? Do you believe there are no people that have irrational praise towards PoE1 and irrational attacks towards PoE2 as a result?

I didn't answer this question because it's nonsensical for the discussion about the claims you made. But, if you feel better...

Yes. It's possible that a part of the PoE1 community is obsessed with the game yadda yadda bla.
Now, to why it's nonsensical.
Obsessed and irrational ppl are everywhere, period. But your initial claim was not "some irrational ppl yadda yadda".
You tried to paint the picture with "PoE1 community is cult-like" and "It's the streamers' fault".

Furthermore, the problem with "part" still stands in your question, that's why I asked YOU, what you avoided answering:
"So, how many from the PoE1 community are in this "cult"?
A meaningless part? A small part? A big part? A massive part? The majority?"

At least I managed to get that out of you, as snarky and backhanded as it was. Also nothing changed, irrationality is part of cult-like mentality and popular streamers definitely were at fault as well.

I didn't answer that part so I can hear your answer first. I think a big part have that cult-like mentality. And you need to look no further then these forums, reddit, and popular streamer's channels to see it on full display.

Thats a very poor excuse to fade out anyones opinion you dont like. Just slap a conspiracy theory on it. You cant just invalidate the opinion of thousands of ppl by saying they have all been either brainwashed or yadda yadda without any proof just because "brainwashed ppl exist somewhere".

If thats how you explain the world to yourself then how will you ever determine if anything that exists is actually bad or if its always just brainwashed cult followers saying it? You couldnt.

How about the reverse scenario, if you find smth bad and voice your opinion of criticism but you get accused of being a cult follower for no reason at all? Thats what youre doing to thousands of ppl right now.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

At least I managed to get that out of you, as snarky and backhanded as it was. Also nothing changed, irrationality is part of cult-like mentality and popular streamers definitely were at fault as well.

Oh boy, the old fallacy again.
Yes, being irrational is a trait you can find in ppl in a cult, but that does not equal ppl who are irrational are in a cult or cult-like.
Especially not if YOU are the one who decided what's "irrational" (cult-like) because you lack the hard proof (information).
Do you eat bread? Or... I don't know... drink water? Because ppl who are in a cult do it too.
Having overlapping traits CAN be an indicator, but it remains falsifiable without proof backing it up.

"

I didn't answer that part so I can hear your answer first. I think a big part have that cult-like mentality. And you need to look no further then these forums, reddit, and popular streamer's channels to see it on full display.

A big part? Ok.

So, how does it come that a really big influential figure that glazes PoE2 has less influence than all the others?
Shouldn't his influence make ppl change their mind to "Yes. While I didn't have fun with 0.2.0, he said it's actually good, so I keep playing"?.
If the "power" of influencers is true for the "bad side", shouldn't it be true for the "good side" too?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

At least I managed to get that out of you, as snarky and backhanded as it was. Also nothing changed, irrationality is part of cult-like mentality and popular streamers definitely were at fault as well.

Oh boy, the old fallacy again.
Yes, being irrational is a trait you can find in ppl in a cult, but that does not equal ppl who are irrational are in a cult or cult-like.
Especially not if YOU are the one who decided what's "irrational" (cult-like) because you lack the hard proof (information).
Do you eat bread? Or... I don't know... drink water? Because ppl who are in a cult do it too.
Having overlapping traits CAN be an indicator, but it remains falsifiable without proof backing it up.

"

I didn't answer that part so I can hear your answer first. I think a big part have that cult-like mentality. And you need to look no further then these forums, reddit, and popular streamer's channels to see it on full display.

A big part? Ok.

So, how does it come that a really big influential figure that glazes PoE2 has less influence than all the others?
Shouldn't his influence make ppl change their mind to "Yes. While I didn't have fun with 0.2.0, he said it's actually good, so I keep playing"?.
If the "power" of influencers is true for the "bad side", shouldn't it be true for the "good side" too?

Dude, it's ok now. We all know you're just creating turbulence for the views, just like the streamers do. It's a business model. I can see topics that mention "the vision" or trahstalking the game getting lots of views. You're not interested in the game getting better, you're interested in the amount of views you can get by being a polemic.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

So, how does it come that a really big influential figure that glazes PoE2 has less influence than all the others?
Shouldn't his influence make ppl change their mind to "Yes. While I didn't have fun with 0.2.0, he said it's actually good, so I keep playing"?.
If the "power" of influencers is true for the "bad side", shouldn't it be true for the "good side" too?

Who is this big influential figure that glazes PoE2? I am curious to see what they say about it.

Also, yes, you are correct. There are people on the other extreme too (I wouldn't call it the good side) that praise PoE2 irrationally. However, I've seen extremely few people doing that.

Here is how I see community division, if you will, based on the forum posts and everything else. Obviously just my estimations.

~ 60% PoE1 cult-type behavior people
~ 35% Objective-thinking people
~ 5% PoE2 cult-type glazers

What PoE2 really needs, is the middle bunch.