The Vision is TRASH.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Here's a very clear example from one year ago proving how powerful streamers/influencers can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwHL97EjgAs

What are you even on about? What does this have to do with "ppl can't form their own opinion"?
If Wal Mart would say "100 free PS5 at this location" you would have the same result.

"

There are obviously lots of people that do form their own opinions, but there are also a lot that don't. The cult-like stuff is real, unfortunate as it may, whether you like to admit it or not. And again, it's not only in PoE1, it happens with different things in life in general. Like the cult formed around our dear friend Elon Musk for example.

Now it's about "cults are real"?
Obviously, they are.
You act like the PoE community is a cult, without any evidence, and then try to support your argument with "look, there are cults out there". Holy...

"

Nope, you are wrong. There is a huge difference between a valid subjective statement and cult-like behavior.

A subjective statement would sound like this "PoE1 is perfect for ME" - this is subjective. Regardless of what the reality of the game is, the person enjoys it to that extent. Nothing to comment here.

A cult-like behavior statement would sound like this "PoE1 IS perfect" - a subjective statement that claims an objective truth, which is of course false. A person that does this will also constantly elevate one over the other through their subjective view while claiming it as an objective truth.

This is 0 evidence for cult-like behaviour.
By your "logic", someone who says "Chocolate is the best" would be a cult member because he did not add the words "in my opinion".
Your mental gymnastics to paint the PoE community (with the negative feedback) as a cult is the weirdest stuff on this forum, and that says a lot and is not a compliment.
You know what a cult member would say too?
"The PoE community is a cult"

"

Wrong again. While there is a difference in context, the general idea can apply in different ways. For example, the cult-like part of PoE1 influences people into believing there is nothing else viable besides lightning spear, and thus people that want to play different things and don't want to play lightning spear are influenced by those people and might not play anymore.

That's such a poor example... you even had to add the "people MIGHT not play" to not make it sound ridiculous.
And again. Understand the difference between:
1. "Someone takes someone else's opinion and factors it in, in his decision making"
and
2. "Someone's opinion is purely based on someone else's view"
AND, more importantly, you try to twist reality in smaller parts to make your narrative fit. These "influencers" did not say "ONLY lightning spear is viable".
What actually happened:
Ppl saw the 0.2.0 patch notes, and that most stuff got nerfed.
So it was highly likely anyway that the new skills perform better, thus, many ppl (including influencers) voiced that opinion, "Lightning Strike will probably be good or even the best to start with".
There, the dynamic "1" comes into play.
Ppl wanted an idea what would perform good and got other opinions to verify. That simple.

"

Of course there were positive things as well, but they weren't coming largely from the PoE1 community. Most of the cult-like PoE1 people had their mind already decided that PoE2 is not for them.

PoE2's launch, despite being received largely positive... was highly contested by PoE1 people from day one.

You stay a lot on the forums from what I can tell, so surely you remember where the complaints day 1 were coming from. You guessed it... there were a lot of cult boys saying that the game is too hard and that they want something more like PoE1 and that they financed the game so they should dictate what GGG should do and the like.

Aha. Now everyone who doesn't liked PoE2 and complained about stuff is a cult member? Holy...

Again. If this magical cult is so present even before PoE2 EA, how does it come that the overall perception of 0.1.0 was positive, but with 0.2.0 not? Has this cUlT advanced their "rituals" to pull ppl to the dark side? Did more ppl join the cult out of boredom?
Hmmm... or... I know, crazy theory... did GGG fuck up?

You always spin back to the same old things:
"Everything against my view (in this case negativity about PoE2) is from ppl who are in a cult and/or can't think for themselves - getting their views dictated by the cult leaders (influencers)."

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Here's a very clear example from one year ago proving how powerful streamers/influencers can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwHL97EjgAs

What are you even on about? What does this have to do with "ppl can't form their own opinion"?
If Wal Mart would say "100 free PS5 at this location" you would have the same result.

"

There are obviously lots of people that do form their own opinions, but there are also a lot that don't. The cult-like stuff is real, unfortunate as it may, whether you like to admit it or not. And again, it's not only in PoE1, it happens with different things in life in general. Like the cult formed around our dear friend Elon Musk for example.

Now it's about "cults are real"?
Obviously, they are.
You act like the PoE community is a cult, without any evidence, and then try to support your argument with "look, there are cults out there". Holy...

"

Nope, you are wrong. There is a huge difference between a valid subjective statement and cult-like behavior.

A subjective statement would sound like this "PoE1 is perfect for ME" - this is subjective. Regardless of what the reality of the game is, the person enjoys it to that extent. Nothing to comment here.

A cult-like behavior statement would sound like this "PoE1 IS perfect" - a subjective statement that claims an objective truth, which is of course false. A person that does this will also constantly elevate one over the other through their subjective view while claiming it as an objective truth.

This is 0 evidence for cult-like behaviour.
By your "logic", someone who says "Chocolate is the best" would be a cult member because he did not add the words "in my opinion".
Your mental gymnastics to paint the PoE community (with the negative feedback) as a cult is the weirdest stuff on this forum, and that says a lot and is not a compliment.
You know what a cult member would say too?
"The PoE community is a cult"

"

Wrong again. While there is a difference in context, the general idea can apply in different ways. For example, the cult-like part of PoE1 influences people into believing there is nothing else viable besides lightning spear, and thus people that want to play different things and don't want to play lightning spear are influenced by those people and might not play anymore.

That's such a poor example... you even had to add the "people MIGHT not play" to not make it sound ridiculous.
And again. Understand the difference between:
1. "Someone takes someone else's opinion and factors it in, in his decision making"
and
2. "Someone's opinion is purely based on someone else's view"
AND, more importantly, you try to twist reality in smaller parts to make your narrative fit. These "influencers" did not say "ONLY lightning spear is viable".
What actually happened:
Ppl saw the 0.2.0 patch notes, and that most stuff got nerfed.
So it was highly likely anyway that the new skills perform better, thus, many ppl (including influencers) voiced that opinion, "Lightning Strike will probably be good or even the best to start with".
There, the dynamic "1" comes into play.
Ppl wanted an idea what would perform good and got other opinions to verify. That simple.

"

Of course there were positive things as well, but they weren't coming largely from the PoE1 community. Most of the cult-like PoE1 people had their mind already decided that PoE2 is not for them.

PoE2's launch, despite being received largely positive... was highly contested by PoE1 people from day one.

You stay a lot on the forums from what I can tell, so surely you remember where the complaints day 1 were coming from. You guessed it... there were a lot of cult boys saying that the game is too hard and that they want something more like PoE1 and that they financed the game so they should dictate what GGG should do and the like.

Aha. Now everyone who doesn't liked PoE2 and complained about stuff is a cult member? Holy...

Again. If this magical cult is so present even before PoE2 EA, how does it come that the overall perception of 0.1.0 was positive, but with 0.2.0 not? Has this cUlT advanced their "rituals" to pull ppl to the dark side? Did more ppl join the cult out of boredom?
Hmmm... or... I know, crazy theory... did GGG fuck up?

You always spin back to the same old things:
"Everything against my view (in this case negativity about PoE2) is from ppl who are in a cult and/or can't think for themselves - getting their views dictated by the cult leaders (influencers)."

I like 0.2

Also again: argumentum ad populum

"

Naharez#3496 wrote:

I like 0.2

Who?

I made a long comment and you step in with your "btw, I am a PoE2 vegan" stuff!?

"

Also again: argumentum ad populum

Also again: argumentum ad populum you too

Time to clean up the glasses your vision is askew.

They will abandon the vision.

Or the game will be dead and played by no one (something like 20k online).

Just look on steam charts.

Or twitch viewers.

Even Fubgun and Empyrean abandoned it quite fast.

It's already 250k to 75k. 0.1 had 550k on release and many played it for month or a two.

In the meanwhile, don't login. Show GGG that you will not play the vision.

It's the most effective way of showing that game direction is bad, since they have metrics etc.

"

Hornsent#1110 wrote:

In the meanwhile, don't login. Show GGG that you will not play the vision.

It's the most effective way of showing that game direction is bad, since they have metrics etc.

poe 2 steam charts actually hit sub 50k today. its worse than you think.

i want to play but i know its a waste of time atm so i have abstained. i would say what im doing while i wait for some sanity in the games direction, but that will just start another agruement lol.

bottom line is these forums are not a great place to discuss it.

"

riotarchangel#2809 wrote:

"

Hornsent#1110 wrote:

In the meanwhile, don't login. Show GGG that you will not play the vision.

It's the most effective way of showing that game direction is bad, since they have metrics etc.

poe 2 steam charts actually hit sub 50k today. its worse than you think.

i want to play but i know its a waste of time atm so i have abstained. i would say what im doing while i wait for some sanity in the games direction, but that will just start another agruement lol.

bottom line is these forums are not a great place to discuss it.

I wonder at what point they think the retention of this game is horrible enough to actually improve it.

I think it was in the "Dropped Frames" interview where Jonathen stated that Mark told him "It can't be THAT bad with this retention" (referring to the player numbers).
But... ok. So, PoE2 EA 0.1.0 had a player peak of 580k, but PoE2 EA 0.2.0 had only a peak of 245k. That's only 42% retained, not to mention how it looks now.

I know, Jonathan said, "We expected a drop from 0.1.0 to 0.2.0", and that makes some sense.
You know, the hype for PoE2 EA release gets obviously more ppl than a "patch", BUT... losing basically 60%?
Not 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%... no... more than HALF of the ppl left.
Didn't they want to make a game that attracts more ppl and is more accessible?
How do they think losing SOOO many ppl, when their goal was to retain more than PoE1 does, is ok!?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Aha. Now everyone who doesn't liked PoE2 and complained about stuff is a cult member? Holy...

Again. If this magical cult is so present even before PoE2 EA, how does it come that the overall perception of 0.1.0 was positive, but with 0.2.0 not? Has this cUlT advanced their "rituals" to pull ppl to the dark side? Did more ppl join the cult out of boredom?
Hmmm... or... I know, crazy theory... did GGG fuck up?

You always spin back to the same old things:
"Everything against my view (in this case negativity about PoE2) is from ppl who are in a cult and/or can't think for themselves - getting their views dictated by the cult leaders (influencers)."

Someone that has cult-like mentality, won't ever admit it even if they realize it obviously, that would invalidate their whole position. I won't comment on the rest above this part individually because the guy that posted literally after I made that comment proved my point instantly, which was comedy gold if you ask me. It's as if I told him to make that post lmao.

Everything has been proven. The video example was to prove streamers/influencers have power of influence, which it shows, it influenced everyone to do what they did. The second example with Elon Musk is literally completely tied to influencing opinions people have.

In fact, I recall another example I saw these past days.. it was a post with a title that went something like this "fubgun quits, therefore I quit too". I rest my case. And there were more like that that I've seen before as well.

Now for the part I quoted...

1.It's simple, the cult people are largely the same, what changed was a combination of the number of people that came back as well as legit fuck-ups GGG did or inaction towards several things that needed change.

2. A lot of people didn't come back because of various other reasons then "woah this patch is so bad it DESTROYED the game".

For example, I asked a friend of mine before Dawn launched if they will be playing it. Despite him enjoying 0.1 and having no complaints about it at all, as opposed to me... he told me he will not play it and he will wait for the full release. A lot of people do that. Another friend doesn't even want to hear about it till the game exits EA. These are very popular opinions.

In fact.. I actually did the same with No Rest for the wicked... I really enjoyed the game but I'm not coming back for the next update they are doing despite part of me wanting to play it again quite a lot... simply because I want to experience the whole full thing from start to finish.

3. Some people that were on the fence to begin with if they were going to play so soon on this patch or wait for GGG to do more, were influenced by negative reviews and streamers too.

4. You seem to be unable to comprehend that legit fuck-ups that GGG did and cult-like behavior can exist at the same time. In your head, if I point out objectively stupid points the cult-like people make... then It must mean that I think the game is flawless and perfect and whatnot. Because that's how the cult people think about PoE1. Far from it.

In fact, I'm sure we even agree on some of the core issues PoE2 has... for example ... crafting. I think crafting in PoE2 is extremely lackluster to say the least and I'm sure you think so too. But you know where our paths diverge?

Immediately after that you and other cult people will say that "PoE1's crafting is the best and they should've done the same in PoE2" - subjective cult-like behavior statement that ignores all the issues with PoE1's crafting.

On the other hand, people that aren't attached to the cult, will ask for better crafting while not advocating for PoE1's crafting as the best thing ever. Because it isn't, objectively.

true and real