[Removed by Support]

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Kadath128#6487 wrote:

ES takes more damage from Chaos

Yup, it really does tho.

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Chaos

I stand corrected, thought it behaved like poe1. Interesting will correct my repsonse to you.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

1)
So life and es are defences now?

Thats what ehP is and you have been sitting here saying they arent defences.

Listen, I get that you don't get it, so I try my best to help you understand EHP, but stop misrepresenting stuff.

So, EHP means "Effective Hit Points".

These "Effective Hit Points" have two sections that they feed off:

1. "Hit Points" like Life, Energy Shield, Mana (with MoM) and/or a combination of them.

2. "Defence Layers" like Evasion, Block, Armour, Resistances, taken as, etc. and/or a combination of them.

With "Defences" you want to PROTECT your "Hit Points" as good as possible, to reduce the incoming damage with avoidances/reductions/whatever.

If you just add "Energy Shield" (Hit Points), you just have more "Hit Points" to lose, but their effectiveness is the same.
If you get attacked with 1000 phys damage, you take 1000 damage.

If you add to your "Energy Shield" (Hit Points) an actual "Defence Layer" like "90% Physical Damage Reduction", you take only 100 phys damage.

So you turned the "Effectiveness" of your 1k ES against the same hit from 1:1 to 1:10.

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Kadath128#6487 wrote:

Yup, it really does tho.

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Chaos

In the context of the entire conversation that led up to their situation though, only a chaos hit would make that difference.

So its the exception not the rule to be fair.


This all started from the above user saying ES and Life aren't defenses. Or that int based builds dont have access to the most or best defenses.

Which they do.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

"

Kadath128#6487 wrote:

Yup, it really does tho.

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Chaos

In the context of the entire conversation that led up to their situation though, only a chaos hit would make that difference.

So its the exception not the rule to be fair.


This all started from the above user saying ES and Life aren't defenses. Or that int based builds dont have access to the most or best defenses.

Which they do.

Life isnt part of defenses, but ES is a little bit of a liner where it is both EHP and defenses, as defined by the game. You can see this when getting a global defense modifier

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Defences

"

Kadath128#6487 wrote:

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

"

Kadath128#6487 wrote:

Yup, it really does tho.

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Chaos

In the context of the entire conversation that led up to their situation though, only a chaos hit would make that difference.

So its the exception not the rule to be fair.


This all started from the above user saying ES and Life aren't defenses. Or that int based builds dont have access to the most or best defenses.

Which they do.

Life isnt part of defenses, but ES is a little bit of a liner where it is both EHP and defenses, as defined by the game. You can see this when getting a global defense modifier

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Defences

Life is defense though.

2k health person
4k health person

One guy lives on a boss slam, other guy doesnt.

Guy that lived had more defense than the guy that didnt.

(Sorry about the defence, defense thing, annoying american/british spelling)

Linking me poe2wiki in this context was not the correct thing to do.

All I have to say is, I can't wait until Last Epoch Season 2 is out. I plan on playing that for a while to compare to POE2, but from everything I heard they have better trade, better balance, higher drop rates especially for SSF, better crafting, and now they have better graphics and WASD movement too. The only thing yet to be seen is better end game.

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

"

Kadath128#6487 wrote:

Yup, it really does tho.

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Chaos

In the context of the entire conversation that led up to their situation though, only a chaos hit would make that difference.

So its the exception not the rule to be fair.


This all started from the above user saying ES and Life aren't defenses. Or that int based builds dont have access to the most or best defenses.

Which they do.

I know that regarding "Keywords" that "Energy Shield" is considered a "Defence", and that can cause some confusion if we talk about "Defence Layer", which impacts the effectiveness of hit points.
That "Energy Shield" has the "Keyword - Defence" (Primary Defences) is more of a mechanical thing.
For example, it's normally really easy to build a character with a huge "Energy Shield" pool if you compare it to "Life". So map mods like "Reduced Defences" affect "Pure Energy Shield" users too, otherwise they would avoid this danger too.

The "Keywords" in-game and out of the game are just different for various reasons.

If it's easier to understand, I phrase it in another way:
"INT-based characters don't have good tools, compared to others, to increase the effectiveness of their hitpoints (Life/Energy Shield/Mana with MoM)."

So, the access to:
- Evasion
- Armour
- Block
- Physical Damage Reduction
- Taken as
and so on, lacks IF you don't go hybrid. And yes, I understand some ppl don't care because you can get a huge hit pool, but in many situations - where it actually matters not to die, a hit pool alone is not tanky enough.

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Life is defense though.

2k health person
4k health person

One guy lives on a boss slam, other guy doesnt.

Guy that lived had more defense than the guy that didnt.

(Sorry about the defence, defense thing, annoying american/british spelling)

Linking me poe2wiki in this context was not the correct thing to do.

I believe when discussing the game mechanics it is vital to use what things are actually called in the game, although some level of colloquialism is unavoidable. The edge case keywords are why things like Eternal Life are so confusing to so many players.

Does life make you live longer/survive more damage? Absolutely. Is it part of a total defensive strategy? Absolutely. Is it defense as defined by the game? No, it is not.

Also the defence vs defense thing is whatever, I likely use both interchangeably which is wild considering the first part of this post. I linked the wiki only to support my statement on what is vs what is not a defense as defined by the game.

endgame at t15 and beyond is just endless deaths. All defence layers are meaningless in boss fights. Literally die from the boss's single hit.

Some rares are too powerful. The Factory map is a death wish. On-death effects are everywhere. The camera needs more zoom-out. There are too many things going on in one screen.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Ok. Then list the "MOST" and "BEST" defence options for a pure INT-based build,
I'll wait.

All int users.


For everyone else. Go to poe2ninja organize by ehp and its just over from there.