Why Does PoE2 Keep XP Loss on Death?

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Denyla#1375 wrote:

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hard163#3933 wrote:

You don't lose anything other than time permanently when you die in most soulslike games. For the times that you do, it is usually around 10-20 minutes of playtime tops to regain the lost souls. Not multiple hours.

I'm currently at level 95, and when I die with an Omen of Amelioration in my inventory, I lose the time it takes to complete one map at most.

I'd rather have that than a game where everyone can jump into a juiced T15/T16 map and get an infinite number of tries to complete it without repercussions. We already have that in Simulacrums Stage 1, and it's the worst. What motivation would you have to improve your build and gear if you could complete any content without it?

duh. most people are plenty motivated to improve builds and acquire better gear without needing to feel loss. Just because some of you have a emo-masochistic streak doesn't mean the rest of humanity have such tendencies too.

It's like saying that you can't enjoy, be fulfilled, and find happiness in having a family of say 2-3 kids without one of those kids or your spouse having to die somewhere along the way. Sheesh.

Lastly, guys like you who word their arguments the way you did seem to be more bothered about maintaining "exclusivity" or a perceived "elite status" being the only one with the loot or the flex in a league rather than loving the XP loss for itself. Jeezas. This is a single-player game for the most part. You can be happy with what you have without denying others their enjoyment.

GGG just put the damn toggle for XP loss in the game already so guys like the one in the qoute can feel "meaningful loss" while the rest of community can just enjoy your game for the sake of it.

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adam_law#9913 wrote:

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Zoidberg50#9782 wrote:

This game is damn hard. That's what I like about it. I do however die too muhc and never passed level 95, this league I can't pass level 90. Exp loss isn't the problem, dying is the problem. I think surviving and the damage and seeing what killed a person would be very useful. A summary of your death.
In my favorate game Terarria it always says what killed you, even if it's a backhanded mockery at least you see something.

That's only a part of the solution (death log). What if you're unlucky, with meager amounts of currencies and you need to max Chaos and 1 or 2 other resistances AND have decent amounts of Armour, Evasion, ES? The Trade market has no room for poor players and the rich only get richer.'

0 player equity and 0 price controls in a game that markets itself as a game for the skilled when it actually is a game that is centralized on gear.

I am very unlucky, in this game. The imbalance in currency might be a seperate issue. Although survivability is embedded in everything we need from trade and using currency. The mostly self found players will simply rot.

Because GGG is obsessed with punishment. At this point I think it's some sort of childhood trauma.
Every single mechanic, that punishes you does not once but at least two times.
Like stun mechanic, you already punished by loosing significant portion of your health, now game punishes you second time, stunning you and preventing actions. Chaos orbs on Sirus, slowing drowning orbs, degen runes from Exarch in T17, etc.

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simakr#1183 wrote:

Because GGG is obsessed with punishment. At this point I think it's some sort of childhood trauma.
Every single mechanic, that punishes you does not once but at least two times.
Like stun mechanic, you already punished by loosing significant portion of your health, now game punishes you second time, stunning you and preventing actions. Chaos orbs on Sirus, slowing drowning orbs, degen runes from Exarch in T17, etc.

It is cheap way to "increase player retention" as they think. What they call "soulslike elements" is RNG deaths players cannot anticipate or react, outside of a few telegraphed boss attacks designed to oneshot any character. No soulslike game ever had random damage spread (on same monster animation), never mind spread on such a scale poe has. Or spread well exceeding player eHP in juiced content. And player must juice content if they want any semblance of loot, nice catch here.

Exp penalty is GGG lying to themselves and to players, saying its necessary for players to care about defenses. Yet in reality it doesn't matter, you will die with any amount of defenses eventually.

This penalty may be justified in race events, where only very skilled players participate, but definitely not in common softcore leagues. Poe1 and now poe2 were never equipped to support it. And personally, exp penalty alone is enough reason to be sure I don't want to pay GGG a single extra dollar. No need to evaluate other design problems if you cannot even level up without being randomly dragged back.

I still think the funniest part of this whole debate is how XP loss doesn’t just punish dying, it punishes playing.

If you remove the death penalty entirely or make it temporary, you’d actually boost the economy. People would be braver. They’d run harder maps, test dumb ideas, die more often, burn more waystones, tablets, and juice. That means more demand, more trading, more crafting, more actual gameplay. Right now XP loss makes a lot of people play like they’re carrying a bowl of soup through an earthquake. They avoid risk, avoid experimenting, and yeah, some just log off.

Also, "not dying" shouldn’t be the elite status. That’s like giving someone a medal for successfully not crashing their car while driving in a straight line. Elite status should be tied to actually doing things. Clearing tough content. Killing bosses. Completing nasty maps. Finding rare stuff, collectibles, whatever. Achievements that prove you engaged with the game, not that you tiptoed around it.

To be fair, one good thing about the current system is you can’t level down. At least the game doesn’t kick you out of 95 and send you back to 94 like "welcome to poverty".

But I still think the death penalty should be map-based. When you enter a map, that’s your floor. If you die, sure, punish the run, punish the portals, punish the map, punish the loot. But don’t let it pull you below the XP you had when you started. That way you can take risks without worrying that one bad death turns your whole evening into negative progress.

And again, that’s good for the economy too. If people aren’t terrified of losing hours, they’ll actually spend currency to juice maps, buy better waystones, try more content, and generally play more. Right now the system encourages the safest possible gameplay. Which is great if the goal is to turn PoE2 into a very pretty panic simulator.

+1

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KubaLy#4534 wrote:

The XP penalty is just another slogfest layer. It does not make the game harder, just longer. You eighter do longer pulls with backtracking and waiting for all the persistent effects/on-death effects to dissapear, or you do quick pulls with high risk of death and lose hours of XP grind. It's a system designed to make the game longer, one way or another. It has nothing to do with difficulty and "meaningfulness".

exactly.

XP loss is lack of criativity.

+1

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

It is cheap way to "increase player retention" as they think.

This is a cheap way to "stress out" the player by simply pushing them try to get better at the video game while they're just trying to have fun.

[Removed by Support]