Why Does PoE2 Keep XP Loss on Death?

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Anal_Rek#2753 wrote:

No disrespect intended but this kind of handwaving of outdated design is why games fail to improve and start to lose their player base permanently as more unresolved grievances pile up, very dangerous behaviour to encourage during early access.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

The XP penalty on death doesn't "add challenge." It changes the entire way you play, and not in a good way. Instead of experimenting, pushing new content, or testing mechanics, you start playing like you're transporting a bowl of soup through a bouncy castle. One random glitch, one offscreen payload, one FPS hiccup and BOOM, a couple hours evaporate.

And yes, it's the same story whether it's a chill T14/T15 or a max-juiced T16. The punishment doesn't care. It's still 10% (or 2.5% with an Omen), and at 95+ that's a completely unhinged amount of time to earn back. The result is predictable: people avoid risk, avoid experimenting, avoid "fun", and then the same folks wonder why everyone is running the safest possible builds and maps.

Also, the "level 100 is just a flex" argument is half true and still kind of stupid. Sure, those last passive points aren't build-defining for most setups, but they matter for a lot of people psychologically. It's the difference between "my build is done" and "my build is almost done forever." And in a game built on tinkering, that feeling counts.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: make the penalty map-based instead of retroactively deleting progress. If I enter a map at 53%, then 53% should be my floor for that map. I can still lose the map, lose the portals, lose the juice, lose the loot potential. That's already a punishment for taking chances. But don't let one bad death erase the progress from my previous maps or my previous play session.

The tricky part is party play, sure. If one person dies and "fails" the map, what happens to the rest? But that's a solvable design problem. The current system is "solved" already, it's just solved in the same way you solve a squeaky door by removing the house.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

The XP penalty on death doesn't "add challenge." It changes the entire way you play, and not in a good way. Instead of experimenting, pushing new content, or testing mechanics, you start playing like you're transporting a bowl of soup through a bouncy castle. One random glitch, one offscreen payload, one FPS hiccup and BOOM, a couple hours evaporate.

And yes, it's the same story whether it's a chill T14/T15 or a max-juiced T16. The punishment doesn't care. It's still 10% (or 2.5% with an Omen), and at 95+ that's a completely unhinged amount of time to earn back. The result is predictable: people avoid risk, avoid experimenting, avoid "fun", and then the same folks wonder why everyone is running the safest possible builds and maps.

Also, the "level 100 is just a flex" argument is half true and still kind of stupid. Sure, those last passive points aren't build-defining for most setups, but they matter for a lot of people psychologically. It's the difference between "my build is done" and "my build is almost done forever." And in a game built on tinkering, that feeling counts.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: make the penalty map-based instead of retroactively deleting progress. If I enter a map at 53%, then 53% should be my floor for that map. I can still lose the map, lose the portals, lose the juice, lose the loot potential. That's already a punishment for taking chances. But don't let one bad death erase the progress from my previous maps or my previous play session.

The tricky part is party play, sure. If one person dies and "fails" the map, what happens to the rest? But that's a solvable design problem. The current system is "solved" already, it's just solved in the same way you solve a squeaky door by removing the house.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

The XP penalty on death doesn't "add challenge." It changes the entire way you play, and not in a good way. Instead of experimenting, pushing new content, or testing mechanics, you start playing like you're transporting a bowl of soup through a bouncy castle. One random glitch, one offscreen payload, one FPS hiccup and BOOM, a couple hours evaporate.

And yes, it's the same story whether it's a chill T14/T15 or a max-juiced T16. The punishment doesn't care. It's still 10% (or 2.5% with an Omen), and at 95+ that's a completely unhinged amount of time to earn back. The result is predictable: people avoid risk, avoid experimenting, avoid "fun", and then the same folks wonder why everyone is running the safest possible builds and maps.

Also, the "level 100 is just a flex" argument is half true and still kind of stupid. Sure, those last passive points aren't build-defining for most setups, but they matter for a lot of people psychologically. It's the difference between "my build is done" and "my build is almost done forever." And in a game built on tinkering, that feeling counts.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: make the penalty map-based instead of retroactively deleting progress. If I enter a map at 53%, then 53% should be my floor for that map. I can still lose the map, lose the portals, lose the juice, lose the loot potential. That's already a punishment for taking chances. But don't let one bad death erase the progress from my previous maps or my previous play session.

The tricky part is party play, sure. If one person dies and "fails" the map, what happens to the rest? But that's a solvable design problem. The current system is "solved" already, it's just solved in the same way you solve a squeaky door by removing the house.